Re: No more excuses

[Cecil <cecil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Well Delk and Rogers were traded to us on Feb. 20/02.  But around this time
last year, you STILL made the comment.  Just goes to show how things can
change without you being consulted :-)

Let's see how you spin this one.

Cecil
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Forant <dforant1@nycap.rr.com>
To: <celtics@igtc.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: No more excuses


> Now let's get our facts straight Cecil. I made that statement prior to the
> Delk Rogers trade. After that deal my outlook changed completely.
> Understand, I am a Celtic fan. Just a sober one.
>
> DanF
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cecil" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
> To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:43 PM
> Subject: Re: No more excuses
>
>
> > Does anyone else recall last year, around this same time, when Dan
boldly
> > predicted that we would not only miss out on the playoffs, but if we
were
> > lucky enough to make it, we would be ousted in round 1?
> >
> > Facts are facts.
> >
> > Cecil
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dan Forant <dforant1@nycap.rr.com>
> > To: <Celtic4Hire@AOL.com>; <celticsstuffgroup@yahoogroups.com>;
> > <celtics@igtc.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:20 PM
> > Subject: Re: No more excuses
> >
> >
> > > Facts are facts. Congratulations. There are others on this list that
> think
> > > the moon is made of green cheese. They also will come to some sad
> > > conclusions with 30+ games left..........sadly.
> > >
> > > DanF
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <Celtic4Hire@aol.com>
> > > To: <celticsstuffgroup@yahoogroups.com>; <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 8:49 PM
> > > Subject: No more excuses
> > >
> > >
> > > > Yesterday was a sea-change day for me. The Seattle game was an
> > opportunity
> > > to
> > > > throw away all of the excuses. PP down and Battie down and we need
> > > > athleticism and scoring. Obie's solution is to not play Vin or Brown
> in
> > > the
> > > > second half  when they really needed them. I am now ready to join
the
> > > ranks
> > > > of questioning all moves from the 2001 draft on. It has been a 1 and
> 1/2
> > > and
> > > > it is reasonable to think critically at this point, IMO. Some
already
> > have
> > > > come to this conclusion so this is nothing new to them. It is just
my
> > > time.
> > > > My reasons follow:
> > > >
> > > > It is simple. We had Kenny and a backup center (VP) and 3 2001 no. 1
> > picks
> > > (2
> > > > of them lottery) and a 2002 pick. We now have 2 guard in a one's
body
> > > three
> > > > point shooter in Delk, a backup center who is the 6th or 7th
offensive
> > > option
> > > > who averages 18 minutes a game and a guy who doesn't play at all.
That
> > is
> > > it.
> > > > Based on the pure statistical facts and that Obie has indicated that
> > this
> > > is
> > > > going to change, how could anyone not come to the conclusion that
this
> > was
> > > a
> > > > pure disaster?
> > > >
> > > > I put the reasons WHY the players that Wallace has gotten have
> performed
> > > so
> > > > poorly  purely on Obie's shoulders with the exception of Forte who
was
> a
> > > pure
> > > > bust mistake. But a big part of the loss in value was the horrible
JJ
> > for
> > > > Rogers and Delk trade. Wallace must be blamed for that and
ultimately
> he
> > > is
> > > > overall responsible. Obie is responsible for not developing his
assets
> > but
> > > > ultimately, if Wallace is getting players that Obie refuses to play
or
> > > > develop, then there is something wrong in the GM/coach relationship.
> > Since
> > > > the GM is supposed to be above the coach, then ultimately it is his
> > > > responsibiltity.
> > > >
> > > > The facts don't lie. Based on last night's game, we have nothing to
> show
> > > for
> > > > Kenny and 4 no. 1 assets. Delk is worth not worth anymore than a
Jimmy
> > > > Jackson free agent type, Vin is debit at his salary base on how Obie
> > uses
> > > him
> > > > (you could consider his contract as goodwill ;>)). I don't think
> Kedrick
> > > will
> > > > be used the rest of this year. At this rate, he could only develop
> into
> > a
> > > > partial performer next year. Even if he did breakout in his fourth
> year,
> > > he
> > > > would be dumping us at first chance. This isn't what you expect out
of
> a
> > > > lottery pick, a return four years from now. You can sign someone
> else's
> > > free
> > > > agent four years from now. Who knows what you got then.
> > > >
> > > > I personally feel both Vin and Brown can be valuable members to this
> > > flawed
> > > > team. But Obie had the perfect chance last night and he showed what
he
> > > > thinks. Therefore, someone must be held accountable. Either Wallace
> > > totally
> > > > screwed up every time, Wallace is partially to blame and the rest is
> > Obie
> > > for
> > > > not developing or playing  or there is something wrong in the GM and
> > coach
> > > > relationship. No more excuses. I no longer think things are going to
> > > change
> > > > with Vin and Brown the way Obie is playing them. We are past the
half
> > way
> > > > point....
> > > >
> > > > DJessen33