stock tires do not suck

[Bill Hussey <vfrboy@home.net>]

Khan Klatt wrote:

> At 1:36 PM -0500 1/27/2000, Ng, Kevin (Bank of America Commercial
> Finance) wrote:
> >Jetta GLX content: I begin to wonder more and more every day why so many are
> >disgusted with the Eagle GA's. On dry pavement, they're not so bad. On wet
> >and snow-covered roads, I move along just fine. All I can suggest is that if
> >you normally drive at 7/10ths, when the weather turns sour drop it down a
> >few notches, to like maybe 3 or 4/10ths. You'll still get to where you need
> >to go.
>
> OK, you want to know why the GA's suck?

I don't usually post to this list, except to ask about problems with the car,
but I guess I have to add my $0.02 to this one ...

> The speed limit up the hill is 35mph, and it's not a severe grade,
> but when I try to accelerate, my wheels slip and spin and slip and
> spin for about 15 feet until they finally decide they are moving fast
> enough to care about the co-efficient of friction.
>
> In other words, these crummy, shitty tires can't grip the fricking
> pavement in a simple, every day circumstance.

Welcome to the world of front-wheel drive, you want to really be able to take
off from the hill, buy something that powers the rear wheels not the front.
Will stickier tires get you better traction off the line?  Sure.  Will there be
a drastic and tremendous improvement ... no.

> Now I've never driven a Jetta with better tires on it, but I can ONLY
> imagine that the kind of comments we get about the GA's has a LOT to
> do with this pathetic handling.

Pathetic handling??  Pathetic handling??  I have had the priveledge to drive
quite a few cars in my short life thus far, and aside from a dated chassis, this
car is brilliant.  My Jetta (with an auto I might add) is completely stock, so
what I'm about to say has not been hindered by the aftermarket.

The stock tires on my '98 are absoltely the best tires VW could have used on
this car.  Do they have limitless grip?  No.  Do they have exceptional wear
characteristics?  No.  Do they have incredibly low levels of noise?  No.  But
they do everything as a package very very well.  This is the only car I have
ever felt completely comfortable throwing around like a toy.  You can enter
turns EXTREMELY HOT, mash the brakes, floor the throttle, or yank the steering
wheel, without any cause for alarm or having the car do anything wrong.  The
reason for this is a combination of balance and correct tire usage.  On the
track (a place I know quite well), this car is just as docile as 10/10ths as it
is at 4/10ths.  The stock rubber gives the right combination of feedback, grip,
and sound to make any turn do'able at almost any speed.  Confidence levels are
extremely high.

What the hell is this bullshit about this car having bad wet weather traction?
Aquatreads and other tires have a design that allows them to funnel water away
to reduce the chance of hydroplaning ... but this has nothing to do with corner
carving.  I find that the same properties and characteristics that make me love
these tires in the dry is what makes me love them in the wet.  I can
consistantly, and confidently (the most important part), drift two or four
wheels in any turn that I see fit.  I may be from Jersey, but I'm not talking
Jersey roads here either.  I have a good friend in Vermont and I've done quite a
few Vermont/upstate NY backroads this winter with these tires, battling sleet
and cold rain and it barely slowed me down at all.  It's all in predictability
and feedback ... these tires have gobs of both of those which is more important
than anything on the street.

> Oh yea, if there is ANY moisture on the ground, kiss all of your
> traction goodbye. You're best off waiting five minutes for the
> traffic to subside before you turn into traffic, or you're going to
> get highbeams when you turn in front of the poor guy who gets stuck
> behind you and your pathetic GA's.

Forgive me for saying this, I'm not trying to insult you, but you need to attend
a driving school of some sort.  Close friends of mine (faster than most of you
can imagine, they spend more time at the track then they do at work), have
trouble keeping up with me in the rain.  For the first few turns, they notice
that I'm able to drift through each corner with ease.  When they get behind the
wheel, it takes them less than 5 turns to get familiar with the car and
appreciate the predictability these tires display.

And going back to dry performance, havent' any of you noticed that it's not the
tires but the chassis that caves in first when the speeds increase?  Four-wheel
drifting above 75mph is so easy it's funny .. an incredible rush.  The stocks
shocks and springs do an impecible job of settling the car when you introduce
bumps at these speeds, but the chassis can take up to two seconds (more or less
depending on speed and size of bump) to settle back into place.  This is the
third of three gripes I have with the car.  My best friend's 14 year old 325e
has a better chassis.

For those of you out there who are gonna flame me back (I know there will be a
lot, you should see what I go through on the VFR list), please don't hit me with
the, "Well you've never tried some of today's better tires", because I have.
Some stickier tires, while providing more grip, provide less feedback (I'll take
feedback to grip any day).  Some stickier tires, while providing more grip, and
only slightly less feedback ... wear away WAY too quickly.  The stock rubber on
my car has been through hell and back.  26,000 miles on the car in a year and 3
months, and the sides of the tires were shot by the 12,000 mile mark from just a
tad too much drifting.  As dismal as that mileage may sound, you'd have to see
what I put them through to understand just how impressive that is.

For those of you that want more grip .. get a set of camber plates and give the
front at least 1 degree of negative camber, more for track days, but don't leave
it like that on the street or you'll chew up the inside of your tires on
straight roads.  If you can do the rear too .. great.  The car's neutral
handling (stock) is what gives you the ability to hamfist it around and not get
yourself in trouble, so increasing front cornering grip while leaving the back
alone will seriously impeded you in your efforts to find better handling.

Bill
'98 GLX