Re: stock tires do not suck(oh yes they do)

["George Turner, Jr" <getone@mediaone.net>]

So are you saying that you take a *virtually stock* auto jetta and run it at
the track and your friends are impressed with it?
What kind of car are your friends driving?
Surely you must be joking?  T1's on a stock jetta will out perform GA's in
every aspect.  If you claim the other tires you have ran on have less
feedback, then you may need to take the time out to actually learn the
characteristics of those tires.  If you did that, them you would not be
making remarks on how well GA's are.  The GA may be the best tire for YOUR
specific need, but they are by far not the best all around tire.  Once one
has taken the time to learn the patterns and characteristics of other tires
then you dare not to mention GA again.
Who told you -1 degree chews up tires?  I have been running that set up for
about 2 years now, and it has never chewed up any tire I have had or
shortened the life span either. The only way a -1 deg. set up will chew up
your tires is if you continuously drive in a straight line (or never play
around in your car).  If you do that... then I wonder about your credibility
concerning track racing in a stock auto jetta.
    And which camber plates are you referring to??? for an 8v or VR6?  I
have been looking for some but can not seem to find any that survive on
California streets... and Cali streets have some of the smoothest streets in
the states.   If you get a lot of flack on the VFR list, there is a reason
why.  Maybe you should stay over there and not bring that to this list.
Take your 2 cents back to the VFR list.
George
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Hussey" <vfrboy@home.net>
To: <jettaglx@igtc.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 3:31 PM
Subject: stock tires do not suck


> Khan Klatt wrote:
>
> > At 1:36 PM -0500 1/27/2000, Ng, Kevin (Bank of America Commercial
> > Finance) wrote:
> > >Jetta GLX content: I begin to wonder more and more every day why so
many are
> > >disgusted with the Eagle GA's. On dry pavement, they're not so bad. On
wet
> > >and snow-covered roads, I move along just fine. All I can suggest is
that if
> > >you normally drive at 7/10ths, when the weather turns sour drop it down
a
> > >few notches, to like maybe 3 or 4/10ths. You'll still get to where you
need
> > >to go.
> >
> > OK, you want to know why the GA's suck?
>
> I don't usually post to this list, except to ask about problems with the
car,
> but I guess I have to add my $0.02 to this one ...
>
> > The speed limit up the hill is 35mph, and it's not a severe grade,
> > but when I try to accelerate, my wheels slip and spin and slip and
> > spin for about 15 feet until they finally decide they are moving fast
> > enough to care about the co-efficient of friction.
> >
> > In other words, these crummy, shitty tires can't grip the fricking
> > pavement in a simple, every day circumstance.
>
> Welcome to the world of front-wheel drive, you want to really be able to
take
> off from the hill, buy something that powers the rear wheels not the
front.
> Will stickier tires get you better traction off the line?  Sure.  Will
there be
> a drastic and tremendous improvement ... no.
>
> > Now I've never driven a Jetta with better tires on it, but I can ONLY
> > imagine that the kind of comments we get about the GA's has a LOT to
> > do with this pathetic handling.
>
> Pathetic handling??  Pathetic handling??  I have had the priveledge to
drive
> quite a few cars in my short life thus far, and aside from a dated
chassis, this
> car is brilliant.  My Jetta (with an auto I might add) is completely
stock, so
> what I'm about to say has not been hindered by the aftermarket.
>
> The stock tires on my '98 are absoltely the best tires VW could have used
on
> this car.  Do they have limitless grip?  No.  Do they have exceptional
wear
> characteristics?  No.  Do they have incredibly low levels of noise?  No.
But
> they do everything as a package very very well.  This is the only car I
have
> ever felt completely comfortable throwing around like a toy.  You can
enter
> turns EXTREMELY HOT, mash the brakes, floor the throttle, or yank the
steering
> wheel, without any cause for alarm or having the car do anything wrong.
The
> reason for this is a combination of balance and correct tire usage.  On
the
> track (a place I know quite well), this car is just as docile as 10/10ths
as it
> is at 4/10ths.  The stock rubber gives the right combination of feedback,
grip,
> and sound to make any turn do'able at almost any speed.  Confidence levels
are
> extremely high.
>
> What the hell is this bullshit about this car having bad wet weather
traction?
> Aquatreads and other tires have a design that allows them to funnel water
away
> to reduce the chance of hydroplaning ... but this has nothing to do with
corner
> carving.  I find that the same properties and characteristics that make me
love
> these tires in the dry is what makes me love them in the wet.  I can
> consistantly, and confidently (the most important part), drift two or four
> wheels in any turn that I see fit.  I may be from Jersey, but I'm not
talking
> Jersey roads here either.  I have a good friend in Vermont and I've done
quite a
> few Vermont/upstate NY backroads this winter with these tires, battling
sleet
> and cold rain and it barely slowed me down at all.  It's all in
predictability
> and feedback ... these tires have gobs of both of those which is more
important
> than anything on the street.
>
> > Oh yea, if there is ANY moisture on the ground, kiss all of your
> > traction goodbye. You're best off waiting five minutes for the
> > traffic to subside before you turn into traffic, or you're going to
> > get highbeams when you turn in front of the poor guy who gets stuck
> > behind you and your pathetic GA's.
>
> Forgive me for saying this, I'm not trying to insult you, but you need to
attend
> a driving school of some sort.  Close friends of mine (faster than most of
you
> can imagine, they spend more time at the track then they do at work), have
> trouble keeping up with me in the rain.  For the first few turns, they
notice
> that I'm able to drift through each corner with ease.  When they get
behind the
> wheel, it takes them less than 5 turns to get familiar with the car and
> appreciate the predictability these tires display.
>
> And going back to dry performance, havent' any of you noticed that it's
not the
> tires but the chassis that caves in first when the speeds increase?
Four-wheel
> drifting above 75mph is so easy it's funny .. an incredible rush.  The
stocks
> shocks and springs do an impecible job of settling the car when you
introduce
> bumps at these speeds, but the chassis can take up to two seconds (more or
less
> depending on speed and size of bump) to settle back into place.  This is
the
> third of three gripes I have with the car.  My best friend's 14 year old
325e
> has a better chassis.
>
> For those of you out there who are gonna flame me back (I know there will
be a
> lot, you should see what I go through on the VFR list), please don't hit
me with
> the, "Well you've never tried some of today's better tires", because I
have.
> Some stickier tires, while providing more grip, provide less feedback
(I'll take
> feedback to grip any day).  Some stickier tires, while providing more
grip, and
> only slightly less feedback ... wear away WAY too quickly.  The stock
rubber on
> my car has been through hell and back.  26,000 miles on the car in a year
and 3
> months, and the sides of the tires were shot by the 12,000 mile mark from
just a
> tad too much drifting.  As dismal as that mileage may sound, you'd have to
see
> what I put them through to understand just how impressive that is.
>
> For those of you that want more grip .. get a set of camber plates and
give the
> front at least 1 degree of negative camber, more for track days, but don't
leave
> it like that on the street or you'll chew up the inside of your tires on
> straight roads.  If you can do the rear too .. great.  The car's neutral
> handling (stock) is what gives you the ability to hamfist it around and
not get
> yourself in trouble, so increasing front cornering grip while leaving the
back
> alone will seriously impeded you in your efforts to find better handling.
>
> Bill
> '98 GLX
>