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Re: Ford: GMs say Pierce no longer untouchable

On Feb 23, 2004, at 5:07 PM, Kim Malo wrote:

At 01:57 PM 2/23/2004, Mark Piotrowski wrote:
whoa, mark. I agree that Pierce seems shaken -- but isn't that
understandable? To some degree I'd sulk too if I were he -- his best
friends are gone, the team is losing, AND their losing while playing
stiffs like McCarty....losing ugly. He's probably frustrated like all
of us -- but unlike us this is his life (well it might be our lives too
but that says something sad about us...:)

Oh please. He's also a highly paid veteran supposed professional and needs to grow up and act like one rather than indulging his frustrations if you really think that's what's going on. It's been months since Antoine was traded. I've been in jobs where the company was falling apart, friends gone, etc etc etc and I still did my job the best I could, if for no better reason than personal pride.

While that's certainly true Kim -- that on some level PP needs to just go out there and do his job regardless of the conditions -- I guess my point was that I'm not ready to trade PP mostly b/c I believe the problem is conditions on the team rather than (as Mark B. was suggesting) something indicative about PP as a player and his ability to "lead" this team.

it would be kind of strange for us to expect PP to be immune from the sort of frustration many of us have felt watching this team this year (which obviously includes PP), I was trying to attribute his drop in performance to the changed conditions on this team, rather than make an excuse for his behavior.

Going back to the point about putting players in the position to succeed -- which is what Ainge needs to do -- Paul's leadership is never going to be like Antoine's. He leads by playing at such a high level and taking the pressure off of other, less talented players -- not talking, teaching, cajoling like AW did. The problem is is that PP hasn't been doing even his own type of leading this year. In some ways his play has been adding, rather than taking pressure off other players.

...and
he happens to think (rightly so) that the ball in his hands the
majority of the time gives the team the best shot at winning.

Mark, seriously - how on earth, given his ball handling liabilities, very limited court vision, and too often bad decision making (including shot selection) can you say something like rightly so? I mean we've seen the evidence this season when the ball has been in his hands the majority of the time, although the signs were there before. Paul can be a very fine offensive weapon, a reasonable defensive player when he puts in the effort, and is an excellent rebounder. But he does not make those around him better in any way, creates too many unnecessary turnovers and bad shots, and is NOT a playmaker who should control the ball most of the time.

You're right -- Pierce doesn't really make those around him better. Maybe "majority" was the wrong word -- plurality maybe. 30% or so of the offensive will/should be generated through him (shooting, driving, passing (which he *can* do when he works at it)), which is more than any other player -- save maybe Banks when he gets there.

Again i was trying to identify PP's strengths and maybe some of his mindset -- i should probably have said he rightly knows that he's the top offensive threat on this team. However there is an important caveat: it has to be in the context of the TEAM.

I think what we've seen this year is the worst of PP: He's looking for his offense in spite of the team rather than as a (the) key part of it. the most sublime games I've seen PP play are when he ends up with 40 pts and you never notice it. I think this goes back to not having a coach that knows what he's doing offensively. I think PP thinks back to the 2001 season and says "we need me to score 35 to win". And he's partly right -- the Celtics DO need PP to score 25-35 pts to win -- but it has to be the right way.

In some ways its similar to the problem we had with Walker. PP could get 29 pts on 8-11 shooting, 10-11 FTs, 8 assts and 2 TOs or 38 pts on 10 for 31 FGs, 12-15 FTs, 1 asst and 7 TOs -- and I'd much prefer the former b/c its more efficient and allows for his team to do more. Again maybe we disagree here -- but when PP is playing the way he SHOULD/CAN play -- the PP of the ECF run where he just TAKES OVER a game -- I'd put him in the top 10 players in this league (and I think he CAN consistently play better than McGrady (though is a little less flashy) and often does). That was the other part -- put PP in a position to do what he does best and you can't trade him b/c there is no way you'll get equal value for him.

At the end of the day a lot of it probably comes down to trust. I don't think PP trusts his teamates to play better than he thinks he can do -- even when he's pressing. My overall point -- to wrap this up -- was that give them all a training camp, PP, Davis and Banks a summer to workout and play together and a coach who knows how to put players in a position to succeed and we'll see the Paul of old.

(the other) mark