Re: Ford: GMs say Pierce no longer untouchable

[Mark Piotrowski <markp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Feb 23, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Berry, Mark S wrote:
> My belief in Pierce is shaken more and more as this season unfolds.
> Watch him during the games. How can he possibly call out teammates,
> coaches or management when he's going through the motions out there -
> and that's exactly what he's doing. Pierce desperately needs a fiery
> leader on the floor with him and a tough, disciplined coach on the
> bench. Maybe Ainge can fill those holes and salvage Pierce. The more
> likely scenario is Ainge sees how Pierce is handling this season 
> (badly,
> and Ainge intimated as much the other day), and he moves him during the
> offseason. That's what I'd do.
>
> For who? That's the hard part. Kobe in a sign-and-trade? Maybe it's a
> combination of players and picks. By all accounts, the Bulls are in the
> market for a star swingman. Would a package of Hinrich, Chandler and 
> the
> Bulls' No. 1 pick work for either team? I honestly don't know. But I
> know this: This season hasn't been a complete loss. We've learned
> something about Paul Pierce.

whoa, mark.  I agree that Pierce seems shaken -- but isn't that 
understandable?  To some degree I'd sulk too if I were he -- his best 
friends are gone, the team is losing, AND their losing while playing 
stiffs like McCarty....losing ugly.  He's probably frustrated like all 
of us -- but unlike us this is his life (well it might be our lives too 
but that says something sad about us...:)

I'm not saying i agree with his GM analysis (comments about 3 worst 
trades ever), but he wants to win.  IMO Pierce is a player who wants 
his teams to do well first (remember he stayed all 4 years in college 
when he probably could have come out and been a high lottery pick), and 
he happens to think (rightly so) that the ball in his hands the 
majority of the time gives the team the best shot at winning.  He might 
be playing selfishly right now -- but i think he'll bounce back this 
summer, wouldn't you play selfishly if the alternative was giving the 
ball to McCarty or Atkins (when he shows up)?

I have a hard time believing that Pierce has really regressed too far 
as a player.  I think he's suffering more from the change in 
conditions.  Pierce (c. 2001) was as good a SG/SF as there was in the 
league.  Give him a real coach, put some more talent around him and 
give them time to gel and i think he'll return to form.

I think the only players you trade Pierce for -- baring some insane 
offer like McGrady + #1 pick -- are ESTABLISHED big men like Yao, J. 
O'Neal, Nowitzki since they're at such a premium.  For that very reason 
they're likely to not be available.  SG/SF are more plentiful in the 
NBA at Pierce's price -- Francis, Iverson, Kobe, McGrady -- but most if 
not all those players are going to have the same problems PP is having: 
  no coach (yet) and low surrounding talent.  I'm totally not interested 
in "upside" players like Dampier or Chandler or a high pick (unless its 
Okafor) for Pierce -- i think we come out on the short end of that.  
Pierce is a star -- chandler or  #4 pick may be, but just as easily may 
not be.

Here are 3 scenarios that i'd prefer/hope for (started typing before 
Ray posted -- so some duplication, sorry):

1.  Trade for Ray Allen and Brent Barry

As per Ainge's "we'll be talking with Seattle this summer" comments 
after the trade deadline, and the report in the Dallas Morning News 
that the Sonics might trade Allen this summer b/c they're afraid they 
can't resign him (Allen has suggested that if the Sonics don't resign 
Barry he'd think more about not resigning himself -- he doesn't want to 
go through what PP is going through), I'd suggest:

Ray Allen + (resigned) Brent Barry

for

Ricky Davis, Jiri Welsch (both of whom i don't necessarily want to 
trade, but who are expendable if you have Allen + Barry), Chris Mihm, 
(signed & traded) Mark Bloiunt, Michael Stewart (exp. contract), & 2 #1 
picks

The numbers don't quite work, but this is the gist of it.  Seattle gets 
picks and young, cheap talent -- which is the way they should go -- to 
build around Rahsard Lewis.  We end up with:

PG:  Barry / Banks / Atkins
SG:  Allen / (Barry)
SF: Pierce / J. Jones
PF: MLE Free agent or #1 Pick / Hunter
C: La Frentz / Perkins

PF and backup Center (Perkins might still be a year or 2 away -- but 
this would force the TBD coach's hand in playing him) continue to be a 
weak spot -- but with 1-3 set for years, you target those areas in the 
draft and free agency.

BTW did anyone read Barry's comments RE: Celtics in the Herald (via 
Hoopshype) :  "While he is open to staying with the Sonics, Barry 
appreciated Ainge's recent interest and is intrigued by the idea of 
playing in Boston for the Celtics. ``I mean, going east is one thing, 
but when you hear `Celtics' it takes on a whole other meaning for me,'' 
said Barry, the son of Rick Barry. ``I know the history of the game 
fairly well. I've been around it . . . let's see, I'm 32, so about 32 
years. I understand how important Celtic basketball is, so in that 
instance being mentioned there in trade talks was flattering. It 
definitely is a little different than anywhere else." Boston Herald


2.  Trading Pierce --

The only player I think fits my desire for a Big man that *may* be 
available -- very unlikely -- would be Zach Randolph.  With S. 
Abdur-Rahim and Ratliff on board, Portland may be able to fetch more 
for Randolph than they'll be able to sign with the capspace from SAR, 
Stoudamire, Ratliff, et al.

Something like:

Pierce + Mihm + (resigned Blount) + Detroit or Dallas' #1

for

Zach Randolph, Ruben Patterson & Derek Anderson + Memphis' pick (for 
taking Patterson)

Portland retains their cap flexibilty, adds a star, while losing the 
last of their capspace eaters

BOSTON

PG: Banks / Atkins
SG: Anderson / Welsch
SF: Davis / Patterson / J. Jones
PF: Randolph / Hunter
C: La Frentz / Perkins / Stewart

and the # 5, 20 and 21 or 24 picks


PORTLAND:
PG: Stoudamire / Dickau
SG: Pierce
SF: Miles / Woods
PF: Abdur-Rahim / Mihm / D. Davis
C: Ratliff / Blount

and the #12, 21 or #24 picks
and Portland still has Davis, Stodamire, Mihm, Ratliff, SAR as FA's 
following season so they can go in mulitple directions with Pierce as 
the anchor.



3.  Lottery Hijinks --

The lowest Orlando can finish in the Lottery -- assuming things stay as 
they are -- is #5.  An interesting scenario would be if the Celtics + 1 
or 2 other teams (worse than us) move up, something like this:

1. Washington
2. Chicago
3. Celtics
4. Charlotte
5. Orlando

Then #1 pick goes to Okafor, #2 to Livingston or Podkolzine and Dwight 
Howard is there at #3 -- would Orlando trade something like (fellow 
Kansas alum) Drew Gooden + their #5 pick for the #3 pick + Welsch & 
Mihm ? Or Gooden, Steven Hunter, and #3 pick for R. Davis, #5, #24 
(Dallas) he's been rumored to be on the block, J. Howard could settle 
in at the 4 until D. Howard is ready, We end up with:

PG: Banks / Atkins
SG: Pierce /
SF: Davis / J. Jones
PF: Gooden / Hunter
C: La Frentz / Perkins / Stewart

and the #5, 21 & 24 picks, or:

PG: Banks / Atkins
SG: Pierce /
SF: Welsch / J. Jones
PF: Gooden / (Mihm) / Hunter
C: La Frentz / Mihm / Perkins / Stewart

and the #5 & 21 picks

IMO, if he's really available, we should push to get Gooden from 
Orlando as the #1 off-season priority -- Orlando desperately need 
talent and its stupid for them to have 2 of their 3 best players (Howrd 
and Gooden) playing the same position (much like us having our 3 best 
players (PP, Davis, Welsch) playing the same position (2/3)).

He's the type of quick, good rebounding PF that would fit Ainge's plan.

(the other) mark