Re: Beating a Dead Horse

[Cecil <cecil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I would be more likely to believe an article if it includes the names of the
teams.  Sports journalists always try to make something out of nothing when
the say things like "teams had expressed interest in Kenny ..."  If there is
evidence of that, why no mention of the teams?  Of course, as we have noted,
you have an insight that none of the rest of us has.

I really do not understand why you have to resort to sentences like you do
below about nursery school.  It dilutes any meaningful message your post may
have.  But it is obvious that you are going to continue to do it to your
heart's content regardless of what anybody else says.  I could post some of
your posts where you call people names and ridicule their posts but it's not
like we haven't seen evidence of that in this forum is it?  Besides, I have
no doubts that you would deny that it was you who sent them, just like the
virus-infected stuff a while back which came from your I.P. address.

Why is it so hard for you to just stick to basketball talk?  Even when Jay
asks very nicely to stop, you need clarification and then tell him to add
some basketball to his post.  What's up?  I am really trying to understand
why.  I am not being condescending, though I would probably change that tune
if I had the chance to see you in person.

You still haven't answered whether you said on the other board if you were
trying to create problems here or not.  I think the answer is obvious...and
so do MANY others.  I just would like to hear it from you.

Cecil


----- Original Message -----
From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
To: Cecil <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>; <celtics@igtc.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse


> Ah, Cecil, a trip to nursery school is always nostalgic, isn't it?
>
> 1) It was written in the Globe that "teams had expressed interest in
Kenny's
> expiring contract."  Seriously.
>
> 2)  If you don't like Battie's boxing out now, it was worse two years ago
> when he tried to leap over people who established position.  Check TB's
> improved stats on rebounds per minute.
>
> 3) PP's missed shots don't just clang, they bounce back to the arc, where
> Paul's having his latte.  Don't you know that he was 0-6 in his second
game
> in which he took 16 shots?  That's not VB's rebound, that's the
> scorekeeper's.
>
> 4) Yeah, and you'd hope they wouldn't pay full price for Vin's ridiculous
> contract, just so he can "come home" and play for his beloved Celtics.  Is
> that why we drafted JJ, who's not "aggressive" enough to play for Obie, or
> Moiso, who couldn't even earn garbage minutes at #11?  Or Forte, who
didn't
> realize that at #21, he'd likely not get much PT behind Milt and Kenny and
> so he gave up early in the season?  Don't they check these guys out, and
if
> so, explain how the system works and how they can move up in it, rather
than
> wallow?
>
> 5)  His name's Rhoadodo, Seesill.  And he doesn't think, he just cheers
for
> Pierce.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cecil" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
> To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
>
>
> > 1.  What teams had interest in acquiring Kenny?  Seriously??
> > 2.  If VP taught Battie how to box out, he did a poor job.  Thought that
> > would be a coach's job.  Perhaps even a high school or college coach may
> > have mentioned/demonstrated proper technique prior to VP teaching him.
> > 3.  With all PP's misses, VB will have plenty of offensive rebounding
> > opportunities, no?
> > 4.  I would hope that Obie and Wallace collaborate before transactions
> like
> > every other organization.
> > 5.  Maybe I should ask Rhoadadodo what he thinks?
> >
> > Cecil
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
> > To: Cecil <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>; <celtics@igtc.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 11:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> >
> >
> > > It's been written that teams had interest in Kenny's expiring
contract,
> > > especially after his strong play last season and in the playoffs.  Did
> you
> > > catch any of that?  Vitaly was overpaid, but he provided a function
> here,
> > > and taught Battie how to box out his man.  Baker will add value, but
not
> > > $56M worth over 4 years, nor will Pierce ever pass to him, so forget
his
> > > usefulness with the first string as long as PP touches the ball.
> > >
> > > As to spending the money, exactly WHO do you think determines the kind
> of
> > > players that the team needs?  A basement bball junkie or the coach who
> has
> > a
> > > style of play and has to implement it?  Wallace handles the
> TRANSACTIONS,
> > > but Obie's got to set the criteria for the kinds of players he needs.
> He
> > > makes the shopping list, Wallace does the shopping.
> > >
> > > Let me know if you think that Wallace finds players that he likes, and
> > asks
> > > Obie to find a way to use them.  If so, I've got this bridge for sale.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Cecil" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
> > > To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 9:46 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > >
> > >
> > > > I am not sure that the C's did not try to make other transactions.
> Are
> > > you?
> > > > The only other thing I will say is that I do not believe the coach
> > spends
> > > > the money.  I mistakenly thought it was the GM who did that.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, we shall see what happens.
> > > >
> > > > Cecil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
> > > > To: Cecil <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>; <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:38 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Look, Cecil, what I find "interesting" isn't the same as
> "appealing".
> > > Our
> > > > > language allows for a whole lot of different words, and since you
> > can't
> > > > > understand MINE, please be careful with your analyses.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't want to be a Clippers fan, thank you.  I'm only saying,
for
> > the
> > > > > third time, that Gaston had spent PLENTY on this team, and gave
> Pitino
> > a
> > > > > brand new faciltiy, a huge, record-settting contract, an expansive
> > > staff,
> > > > > and every player he wanted.  Now Obie gets the scraps.  Sometimes
a
> > > coach
> > > > > has to prove he can spend the money wisely, and being fooled by RP
> > > didn't
> > > > > help Obie's cause.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now that you understand that the Celts are over the cap and on the
> > cusp
> > > of
> > > > > the lux tax, can we stop beating the horse of Gaston's cheapness?
> > I'll
> > > > say
> > > > > it again; the Celts could have made other deals with other teams
in
> > > order
> > > > to
> > > > > keep Rodney and stay under the lux tax.  If they'd asked Seattle
to
> > sign
> > > > > Rodney as their mid-level exemption and included HIM instead of
> SWill
> > > with
> > > > > Baker, we'd have been able to keep the guy and grab a PG instead
of
> > > Wookie
> > > > > for the same money.  Also wouldn't have needed Sundov, and
possibly
> > not
> > > > > McCarty but a guy like McCloud instead.  If Obie's going to have
to
> > > train
> > > > 7
> > > > > new guys in the Harter defense, what's the difference?  Also,
plenty
> > of
> > > > > other teams would have been willing to take Kenny's cap relief as
> > well,
> > > > and
> > > > > Seattle won twice on the deal, dumping Baker and getting Kenny's
cap
> > > > relief
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Cecil" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
> > > > > To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 7:36 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Lance, with all due respect, there is no need for you to remind
me
> > of
> > > > > > anything basketball related.  Believe it or not, I am quite
aware
> of
> > > > > > Sterling's record of futility as well as Gaston's wheelings and
> > > dealings
> > > > > as
> > > > > > the C's owner.  What you are not denying is your quote that you
> find
> > > > > > Sterling's methods interesting in that they compete in the draft
> > > lottery
> > > > > > each year.  I am willing to bet there are not many on this list
> who
> > > > would
> > > > > > prefer that style....but hey....if it works for you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now, regarding telling me what I am allowed to discuss....in my
> most
> > > > > > gentlemanly manner....well....I think I will decide what I post
> > > > > about...not
> > > > > > you.  You have the right to do just what you did....not answer
the
> > > > > question
> > > > > > and create another diversion instead.  That's cool.  The
question
> I
> > > > asked
> > > > > > about the other board came into my mind and so I asked you about
> it.
> > > Is
> > > > > > there something wrong with that?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cecil (who's sure Lance will have a problem with Pierce's game
> last
> > > > night
> > > > > > too)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
> > > > > > To: Cecil <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>; <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 1:49 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gee, Cecil, I try to remind you that Sterling's been a cheap
> > bastard
> > > > > ever
> > > > > > > since he took over the franchise, while Gaston spent every
> nickel
> > > > Pitino
> > > > > > > wanted him to plus paid him a ransom and you get all kinds of
> > pissy.
> > > > > You
> > > > > > > keep telling me that I'm here to piss people off, and I never
> > > > referenced
> > > > > > > that in any other board, other than to point out that Tammo is
a
> > > > college
> > > > > > > cheerleading fraud when it comes to NBA reviews, and you just
> > don't
> > > > like
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Don't compare Gaston to Sterling.  They have nothing in
common,
> > > since
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > Celts have been over the cap every year of his ownership, and
> > > > Sterling's
> > > > > > > never been over the cap.  Do you understand that, Cecil?  He
> paid
> > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > most expensive coach, paid TWO players the max and then got
> tired
> > of
> > > > it
> > > > > > all.
> > > > > > > Talk about "what have you done lately".  You've got a memory
> span
> > of
> > > > 1-2
> > > > > > > seasons.  Remember Sherman Douglas?  Yeah, he was here in the
> > '90s.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Come on, Cecil.  Think straight.  And stop talking about the
> other
> > > > > board.
> > > > > > > Don't you have enough going on here to deal with?  Like Dan F.
> > who's
> > > > > > jumping
> > > > > > > off the Tobin Bridge?
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Cecil" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
> > > > > > > To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 5:12 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As I have said several times in the past..."I swear you do
> this
> > > just
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > intentionally piss folks off".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My priorities as for the team to win.  I don't care about
the
> > cost
> > > > > > > because,
> > > > > > > > as you well know, it ain't my money.  But it is a well
> > documented
> > > > fact
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > Sterling is a tightwad pennypincher whose teams never win
and
> > > > > definitely
> > > > > > > > will not again this year.  So what do I give a hoot about
his
> > > > strategy
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > methods?  He can have a roster which costs $.03 for all I
> care.
> > > > What
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > care
> > > > > > > > about is that the Celts get flag #17 sometime soon.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But since you mentioned it. I think the fact that you think
> > > sucking
> > > > so
> > > > > > > badly
> > > > > > > > that it gets you lottery picks every year is very revealing
> > about
> > > > you.
> > > > > > > You
> > > > > > > > think that keeps a team interesting?  I want no part of
that.
> > To
> > > > me,
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > shows an ineptitude which I hope we never reach.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Gaston?  Business man just like Sterling.  Decided he was
> gonna
> > > sell
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > team, therefore, did not want to enter luxury tax land.
Smart
> > > > > business
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > poor for the fans.  Best thing he did/is doing for us, is
sell
> > the
> > > > > team
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > someone who is willing to spend the capital which will give
> the
> > > fans
> > > > a
> > > > > > > good
> > > > > > > > ROI.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Understand priorities?  What is your priority Lance...other
> than
> > > > > causing
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > ruckus and shitting on Pierce and Tammo?  Seriously, what is
> > your
> > > > > point
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > that stuff?  Others tell me that you have mentioned on the
> other
> > > > list,
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > you want to create problems on this list.  Is that true?  If
> so,
> > > for
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > reason?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On another note, I am trying to get tickets for the New
Years
> > Eve
> > > > > > > afternoon
> > > > > > > > game vs Memphis and possibly the following game vs Portland
on
> > > Jan.
> > > > 3.
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > successful, I hope to catch up with Kim, Jim, Adam, Shawn
and
> > > anyone
> > > > > > else
> > > > > > > > who will be there.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cecil
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
> > > > > > > > To: Cecil <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>; <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 5:34 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > OK, let's understand priorities.  Gaston hired Pitino and
> > spent
> > > > more
> > > > > > > money
> > > > > > > > > than anyone ever had to build a team.  He got disgusted
and
> > > > refused
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > pay
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > top coach, but agreed to extend Walker and Pierce, who
he's
> > paid
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > year,
> > > > > > > > > as well as Baker.  Sterling's roster costs him less than
> half
> > as
> > > > > much,
> > > > > > > > $26M
> > > > > > > > > right now, which is a whole different animal.  The Celts
are
> > > > > mid-pack
> > > > > > > > > regarding roster cost whereas the Clips are the bottom.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Point isn't too hard to gather here.  If you insist on
> paying
> > > the
> > > > > very
> > > > > > > > least
> > > > > > > > > for your players, you'll keep sucking and keep getting top
> > > lottery
> > > > > > > picks,
> > > > > > > > > which keeps your team interesting.  Doesn't mean you'll
make
> > the
> > > > > > > playoffs
> > > > > > > > > eventually, though, but saving $30M in a town where Lakers
> > > tickets
> > > > > > cost
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > bundle means you'll still sell seats.  It's Sterling's
> > business
> > > > how
> > > > > he
> > > > > > > > runs
> > > > > > > > > the team; I'll assume he's making money.  What do you care
> if
> > > the
> > > > > > Clips
> > > > > > > > suck
> > > > > > > > > or not?  It's not your club, you don't own jerseys or
print
> > > them,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > > nothing to do with the idea that we just locked up 4 years
> > over
> > > > the
> > > > > > cap
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > guy worth no more than Eric Williams.  Does that give you
> > Celtic
> > > > > > Pride,
> > > > > > > > > Cecil, because we have 3 All-Stars that we're paying the
> max?
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "Cecil" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
> > > > > > > > > To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 3:13 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > While Sterling keeps his cost down, his teams generally
> > suck.
> > > > > Even
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > putrid owner, we made it to the ECFs last year.  When
have
> > the
> > > > > Clips
> > > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > > that?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Cecil
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
> > > > > > > > > > To: Michael Gooen <callmebogie@yahoo.com>;
> > <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:12 PM
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Not sure you're following Jim's response, Mike.  He's
> > saying
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > Sterling
> > > > > > > > > > > doesn't need Kenny's expiring contract in order to
keep
> > his
> > > > > costs
> > > > > > > > down.
> > > > > > > > > > > He's got young players who now expect to be paid their
> > > market
> > > > > > value
> > > > > > > > once
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > rookie contracts expire, and he'll keep one or none of
> > them,
> > > > > > trading
> > > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > > while they're cheap for draft picks or even younger
> > players
> > > > plus
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > little
> > > > > > > > > > > value.  He loves those picks because he gets talent
for
> > > cheap
> > > > > > money.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, we do the opposite.  We give away picks or
> > > > first-year
> > > > > > > > players
> > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > order to get mediocre, expensive players, and watch
our
> > > young
> > > > > guys
> > > > > > > > > develop
> > > > > > > > > > > elsewhere.  Did we get value for Billups?  Mercer?
> Moiso?
> > > JJ?
> > > > > > > Forte?
> > > > > > > > > How
> > > > > > > > > > > about the 22nd pick we gave up this year?  For that
> money,
> > > we
> > > > > took
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > Bremer, who didn't make the second round, much less
> > > mid-first
> > > > > > round.
> > > > > > > > > > Stupid
> > > > > > > > > > > management.
> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: "Michael Gooen" <callmebogie@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:58 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Since it's always more fun to focus on trades that
> might
> > > > have
> > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > > an all-time-record loss.....
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Jim Hill wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > <<The Clippers are under the cap and don't need the
> > > expiring
> > > > > > > > contract.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore Sterling has no need to trade for Anderson
> and
> > > > throw
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > money down the toilet while giving up two potential
> > future
> > > > all
> > > > > > > stars
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > nothing.>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Wasn't suggesting that the Cs could have gotten both
> > > > players,
> > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > one.
> > > > > > > > > > > > And I don't see what the Clippers' cap situation has
> to
> > do
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > If you're Donald Sterling, wouldn't you rather pay
> Kenny
> > > > > > Anderson
> > > > > > > > (or
> > > > > > > > > > > > anyone else) $9 million for one year and get draft
> picks
> > > to
> > > > > whom
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > > pay $1-2 million for four or five years than pay
> someone
> > > > like
> > > > > > > > > Olowokandi
> > > > > > > > > > > > or Brand $90 million over 6 years?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I'm wrong about Sterling's motivations.  Let's
> see
> > > > > whether
> > > > > > > > > > > > Olowokandi and Miller get their money.
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