Re: Beating a Dead Horse

[Cecil <cecil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

1.  What teams had interest in acquiring Kenny?  Seriously??
2.  If VP taught Battie how to box out, he did a poor job.  Thought that
would be a coach's job.  Perhaps even a high school or college coach may
have mentioned/demonstrated proper technique prior to VP teaching him.
3.  With all PP's misses, VB will have plenty of offensive rebounding
opportunities, no?
4.  I would hope that Obie and Wallace collaborate before transactions like
every other organization.
5.  Maybe I should ask Rhoadadodo what he thinks?

Cecil


----- Original Message -----
From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
To: Cecil <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>; <celtics@igtc.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse


> It's been written that teams had interest in Kenny's expiring contract,
> especially after his strong play last season and in the playoffs.  Did you
> catch any of that?  Vitaly was overpaid, but he provided a function here,
> and taught Battie how to box out his man.  Baker will add value, but not
> $56M worth over 4 years, nor will Pierce ever pass to him, so forget his
> usefulness with the first string as long as PP touches the ball.
>
> As to spending the money, exactly WHO do you think determines the kind of
> players that the team needs?  A basement bball junkie or the coach who has
a
> style of play and has to implement it?  Wallace handles the TRANSACTIONS,
> but Obie's got to set the criteria for the kinds of players he needs.  He
> makes the shopping list, Wallace does the shopping.
>
> Let me know if you think that Wallace finds players that he likes, and
asks
> Obie to find a way to use them.  If so, I've got this bridge for sale.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cecil" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
> To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 9:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
>
>
> > I am not sure that the C's did not try to make other transactions.  Are
> you?
> > The only other thing I will say is that I do not believe the coach
spends
> > the money.  I mistakenly thought it was the GM who did that.
> >
> > Anyway, we shall see what happens.
> >
> > Cecil
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
> > To: Cecil <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>; <celtics@igtc.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> >
> >
> > > Look, Cecil, what I find "interesting" isn't the same as "appealing".
> Our
> > > language allows for a whole lot of different words, and since you
can't
> > > understand MINE, please be careful with your analyses.
> > >
> > > I don't want to be a Clippers fan, thank you.  I'm only saying, for
the
> > > third time, that Gaston had spent PLENTY on this team, and gave Pitino
a
> > > brand new faciltiy, a huge, record-settting contract, an expansive
> staff,
> > > and every player he wanted.  Now Obie gets the scraps.  Sometimes a
> coach
> > > has to prove he can spend the money wisely, and being fooled by RP
> didn't
> > > help Obie's cause.
> > >
> > > Now that you understand that the Celts are over the cap and on the
cusp
> of
> > > the lux tax, can we stop beating the horse of Gaston's cheapness?
I'll
> > say
> > > it again; the Celts could have made other deals with other teams in
> order
> > to
> > > keep Rodney and stay under the lux tax.  If they'd asked Seattle to
sign
> > > Rodney as their mid-level exemption and included HIM instead of SWill
> with
> > > Baker, we'd have been able to keep the guy and grab a PG instead of
> Wookie
> > > for the same money.  Also wouldn't have needed Sundov, and possibly
not
> > > McCarty but a guy like McCloud instead.  If Obie's going to have to
> train
> > 7
> > > new guys in the Harter defense, what's the difference?  Also, plenty
of
> > > other teams would have been willing to take Kenny's cap relief as
well,
> > and
> > > Seattle won twice on the deal, dumping Baker and getting Kenny's cap
> > relief
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Cecil" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
> > > To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 7:36 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > >
> > >
> > > > Lance, with all due respect, there is no need for you to remind me
of
> > > > anything basketball related.  Believe it or not, I am quite aware of
> > > > Sterling's record of futility as well as Gaston's wheelings and
> dealings
> > > as
> > > > the C's owner.  What you are not denying is your quote that you find
> > > > Sterling's methods interesting in that they compete in the draft
> lottery
> > > > each year.  I am willing to bet there are not many on this list who
> > would
> > > > prefer that style....but hey....if it works for you.
> > > >
> > > > Now, regarding telling me what I am allowed to discuss....in my most
> > > > gentlemanly manner....well....I think I will decide what I post
> > > about...not
> > > > you.  You have the right to do just what you did....not answer the
> > > question
> > > > and create another diversion instead.  That's cool.  The question I
> > asked
> > > > about the other board came into my mind and so I asked you about it.
> Is
> > > > there something wrong with that?
> > > >
> > > > Cecil (who's sure Lance will have a problem with Pierce's game last
> > night
> > > > too)
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
> > > > To: Cecil <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>; <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 1:49 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Gee, Cecil, I try to remind you that Sterling's been a cheap
bastard
> > > ever
> > > > > since he took over the franchise, while Gaston spent every nickel
> > Pitino
> > > > > wanted him to plus paid him a ransom and you get all kinds of
pissy.
> > > You
> > > > > keep telling me that I'm here to piss people off, and I never
> > referenced
> > > > > that in any other board, other than to point out that Tammo is a
> > college
> > > > > cheerleading fraud when it comes to NBA reviews, and you just
don't
> > like
> > > > it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't compare Gaston to Sterling.  They have nothing in common,
> since
> > > the
> > > > > Celts have been over the cap every year of his ownership, and
> > Sterling's
> > > > > never been over the cap.  Do you understand that, Cecil?  He paid
> for
> > > the
> > > > > most expensive coach, paid TWO players the max and then got tired
of
> > it
> > > > all.
> > > > > Talk about "what have you done lately".  You've got a memory span
of
> > 1-2
> > > > > seasons.  Remember Sherman Douglas?  Yeah, he was here in the
'90s.
> > > > >
> > > > > Come on, Cecil.  Think straight.  And stop talking about the other
> > > board.
> > > > > Don't you have enough going on here to deal with?  Like Dan F.
who's
> > > > jumping
> > > > > off the Tobin Bridge?
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Cecil" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
> > > > > To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 5:12 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > As I have said several times in the past..."I swear you do this
> just
> > > to
> > > > > > intentionally piss folks off".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My priorities as for the team to win.  I don't care about the
cost
> > > > > because,
> > > > > > as you well know, it ain't my money.  But it is a well
documented
> > fact
> > > > > that
> > > > > > Sterling is a tightwad pennypincher whose teams never win and
> > > definitely
> > > > > > will not again this year.  So what do I give a hoot about his
> > strategy
> > > > or
> > > > > > methods?  He can have a roster which costs $.03 for all I care.
> > What
> > > I
> > > > > care
> > > > > > about is that the Celts get flag #17 sometime soon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But since you mentioned it. I think the fact that you think
> sucking
> > so
> > > > > badly
> > > > > > that it gets you lottery picks every year is very revealing
about
> > you.
> > > > > You
> > > > > > think that keeps a team interesting?  I want no part of that.
To
> > me,
> > > it
> > > > > > shows an ineptitude which I hope we never reach.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gaston?  Business man just like Sterling.  Decided he was gonna
> sell
> > > the
> > > > > > team, therefore, did not want to enter luxury tax land.  Smart
> > > business
> > > > > but
> > > > > > poor for the fans.  Best thing he did/is doing for us, is sell
the
> > > team
> > > > to
> > > > > > someone who is willing to spend the capital which will give the
> fans
> > a
> > > > > good
> > > > > > ROI.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Understand priorities?  What is your priority Lance...other than
> > > causing
> > > > a
> > > > > > ruckus and shitting on Pierce and Tammo?  Seriously, what is
your
> > > point
> > > > > with
> > > > > > that stuff?  Others tell me that you have mentioned on the other
> > list,
> > > > > that
> > > > > > you want to create problems on this list.  Is that true?  If so,
> for
> > > > what
> > > > > > reason?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On another note, I am trying to get tickets for the New Years
Eve
> > > > > afternoon
> > > > > > game vs Memphis and possibly the following game vs Portland on
> Jan.
> > 3.
> > > > If
> > > > > > successful, I hope to catch up with Kim, Jim, Adam, Shawn and
> anyone
> > > > else
> > > > > > who will be there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cecil
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
> > > > > > To: Cecil <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>; <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 5:34 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > OK, let's understand priorities.  Gaston hired Pitino and
spent
> > more
> > > > > money
> > > > > > > than anyone ever had to build a team.  He got disgusted and
> > refused
> > > to
> > > > > pay
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > top coach, but agreed to extend Walker and Pierce, who he's
paid
> > > this
> > > > > > year,
> > > > > > > as well as Baker.  Sterling's roster costs him less than half
as
> > > much,
> > > > > > $26M
> > > > > > > right now, which is a whole different animal.  The Celts are
> > > mid-pack
> > > > > > > regarding roster cost whereas the Clips are the bottom.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Point isn't too hard to gather here.  If you insist on paying
> the
> > > very
> > > > > > least
> > > > > > > for your players, you'll keep sucking and keep getting top
> lottery
> > > > > picks,
> > > > > > > which keeps your team interesting.  Doesn't mean you'll make
the
> > > > > playoffs
> > > > > > > eventually, though, but saving $30M in a town where Lakers
> tickets
> > > > cost
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > bundle means you'll still sell seats.  It's Sterling's
business
> > how
> > > he
> > > > > > runs
> > > > > > > the team; I'll assume he's making money.  What do you care if
> the
> > > > Clips
> > > > > > suck
> > > > > > > or not?  It's not your club, you don't own jerseys or print
> them,
> > > and
> > > > it
> > > > > > has
> > > > > > > nothing to do with the idea that we just locked up 4 years
over
> > the
> > > > cap
> > > > > on
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > guy worth no more than Eric Williams.  Does that give you
Celtic
> > > > Pride,
> > > > > > > Cecil, because we have 3 All-Stars that we're paying the max?
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Cecil" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
> > > > > > > To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 3:13 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > While Sterling keeps his cost down, his teams generally
suck.
> > > Even
> > > > > with
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > putrid owner, we made it to the ECFs last year.  When have
the
> > > Clips
> > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > that?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cecil
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
> > > > > > > > To: Michael Gooen <callmebogie@yahoo.com>;
<celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:12 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Not sure you're following Jim's response, Mike.  He's
saying
> > > that
> > > > > > > Sterling
> > > > > > > > > doesn't need Kenny's expiring contract in order to keep
his
> > > costs
> > > > > > down.
> > > > > > > > > He's got young players who now expect to be paid their
> market
> > > > value
> > > > > > once
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > rookie contracts expire, and he'll keep one or none of
them,
> > > > trading
> > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > while they're cheap for draft picks or even younger
players
> > plus
> > > a
> > > > > > > little
> > > > > > > > > value.  He loves those picks because he gets talent for
> cheap
> > > > money.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, we do the opposite.  We give away picks or
> > first-year
> > > > > > players
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > order to get mediocre, expensive players, and watch our
> young
> > > guys
> > > > > > > develop
> > > > > > > > > elsewhere.  Did we get value for Billups?  Mercer?  Moiso?
> JJ?
> > > > > Forte?
> > > > > > > How
> > > > > > > > > about the 22nd pick we gave up this year?  For that money,
> we
> > > took
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > Bremer, who didn't make the second round, much less
> mid-first
> > > > round.
> > > > > > > > Stupid
> > > > > > > > > management.
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "Michael Gooen" <callmebogie@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:58 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Since it's always more fun to focus on trades that might
> > have
> > > > been
> > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > an all-time-record loss.....
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Jim Hill wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > <<The Clippers are under the cap and don't need the
> expiring
> > > > > > contract.
> > > > > > > > > > Therefore Sterling has no need to trade for Anderson and
> > throw
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > money down the toilet while giving up two potential
future
> > all
> > > > > stars
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > nothing.>>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Wasn't suggesting that the Cs could have gotten both
> > players,
> > > > only
> > > > > > > one.
> > > > > > > > > > And I don't see what the Clippers' cap situation has to
do
> > > with
> > > > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > > > > > If you're Donald Sterling, wouldn't you rather pay Kenny
> > > > Anderson
> > > > > > (or
> > > > > > > > > > anyone else) $9 million for one year and get draft picks
> to
> > > whom
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > pay $1-2 million for four or five years than pay someone
> > like
> > > > > > > Olowokandi
> > > > > > > > > > or Brand $90 million over 6 years?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Maybe I'm wrong about Sterling's motivations.  Let's see
> > > whether
> > > > > > > > > > Olowokandi and Miller get their money.
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