Re: Beating a Dead Horse

[Cecil <cecil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I am not sure that the C's did not try to make other transactions.  Are you?
The only other thing I will say is that I do not believe the coach spends
the money.  I mistakenly thought it was the GM who did that.

Anyway, we shall see what happens.

Cecil


----- Original Message -----
From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
To: Cecil <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>; <celtics@igtc.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse


> Look, Cecil, what I find "interesting" isn't the same as "appealing".  Our
> language allows for a whole lot of different words, and since you can't
> understand MINE, please be careful with your analyses.
>
> I don't want to be a Clippers fan, thank you.  I'm only saying, for the
> third time, that Gaston had spent PLENTY on this team, and gave Pitino a
> brand new faciltiy, a huge, record-settting contract, an expansive staff,
> and every player he wanted.  Now Obie gets the scraps.  Sometimes a coach
> has to prove he can spend the money wisely, and being fooled by RP didn't
> help Obie's cause.
>
> Now that you understand that the Celts are over the cap and on the cusp of
> the lux tax, can we stop beating the horse of Gaston's cheapness?  I'll
say
> it again; the Celts could have made other deals with other teams in order
to
> keep Rodney and stay under the lux tax.  If they'd asked Seattle to sign
> Rodney as their mid-level exemption and included HIM instead of SWill with
> Baker, we'd have been able to keep the guy and grab a PG instead of Wookie
> for the same money.  Also wouldn't have needed Sundov, and possibly not
> McCarty but a guy like McCloud instead.  If Obie's going to have to train
7
> new guys in the Harter defense, what's the difference?  Also, plenty of
> other teams would have been willing to take Kenny's cap relief as well,
and
> Seattle won twice on the deal, dumping Baker and getting Kenny's cap
relief
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cecil" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
> To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 7:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
>
>
> > Lance, with all due respect, there is no need for you to remind me of
> > anything basketball related.  Believe it or not, I am quite aware of
> > Sterling's record of futility as well as Gaston's wheelings and dealings
> as
> > the C's owner.  What you are not denying is your quote that you find
> > Sterling's methods interesting in that they compete in the draft lottery
> > each year.  I am willing to bet there are not many on this list who
would
> > prefer that style....but hey....if it works for you.
> >
> > Now, regarding telling me what I am allowed to discuss....in my most
> > gentlemanly manner....well....I think I will decide what I post
> about...not
> > you.  You have the right to do just what you did....not answer the
> question
> > and create another diversion instead.  That's cool.  The question I
asked
> > about the other board came into my mind and so I asked you about it.  Is
> > there something wrong with that?
> >
> > Cecil (who's sure Lance will have a problem with Pierce's game last
night
> > too)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
> > To: Cecil <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>; <celtics@igtc.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 1:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> >
> >
> > > Gee, Cecil, I try to remind you that Sterling's been a cheap bastard
> ever
> > > since he took over the franchise, while Gaston spent every nickel
Pitino
> > > wanted him to plus paid him a ransom and you get all kinds of pissy.
> You
> > > keep telling me that I'm here to piss people off, and I never
referenced
> > > that in any other board, other than to point out that Tammo is a
college
> > > cheerleading fraud when it comes to NBA reviews, and you just don't
like
> > it.
> > >
> > > Don't compare Gaston to Sterling.  They have nothing in common, since
> the
> > > Celts have been over the cap every year of his ownership, and
Sterling's
> > > never been over the cap.  Do you understand that, Cecil?  He paid for
> the
> > > most expensive coach, paid TWO players the max and then got tired of
it
> > all.
> > > Talk about "what have you done lately".  You've got a memory span of
1-2
> > > seasons.  Remember Sherman Douglas?  Yeah, he was here in the '90s.
> > >
> > > Come on, Cecil.  Think straight.  And stop talking about the other
> board.
> > > Don't you have enough going on here to deal with?  Like Dan F. who's
> > jumping
> > > off the Tobin Bridge?
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Cecil" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
> > > To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 5:12 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > >
> > >
> > > > As I have said several times in the past..."I swear you do this just
> to
> > > > intentionally piss folks off".
> > > >
> > > > My priorities as for the team to win.  I don't care about the cost
> > > because,
> > > > as you well know, it ain't my money.  But it is a well documented
fact
> > > that
> > > > Sterling is a tightwad pennypincher whose teams never win and
> definitely
> > > > will not again this year.  So what do I give a hoot about his
strategy
> > or
> > > > methods?  He can have a roster which costs $.03 for all I care.
What
> I
> > > care
> > > > about is that the Celts get flag #17 sometime soon.
> > > >
> > > > But since you mentioned it. I think the fact that you think sucking
so
> > > badly
> > > > that it gets you lottery picks every year is very revealing about
you.
> > > You
> > > > think that keeps a team interesting?  I want no part of that.  To
me,
> it
> > > > shows an ineptitude which I hope we never reach.
> > > >
> > > > Gaston?  Business man just like Sterling.  Decided he was gonna sell
> the
> > > > team, therefore, did not want to enter luxury tax land.  Smart
> business
> > > but
> > > > poor for the fans.  Best thing he did/is doing for us, is sell the
> team
> > to
> > > > someone who is willing to spend the capital which will give the fans
a
> > > good
> > > > ROI.
> > > >
> > > > Understand priorities?  What is your priority Lance...other than
> causing
> > a
> > > > ruckus and shitting on Pierce and Tammo?  Seriously, what is your
> point
> > > with
> > > > that stuff?  Others tell me that you have mentioned on the other
list,
> > > that
> > > > you want to create problems on this list.  Is that true?  If so, for
> > what
> > > > reason?
> > > >
> > > > On another note, I am trying to get tickets for the New Years Eve
> > > afternoon
> > > > game vs Memphis and possibly the following game vs Portland on Jan.
3.
> > If
> > > > successful, I hope to catch up with Kim, Jim, Adam, Shawn and anyone
> > else
> > > > who will be there.
> > > >
> > > > Cecil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
> > > > To: Cecil <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>; <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 5:34 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > OK, let's understand priorities.  Gaston hired Pitino and spent
more
> > > money
> > > > > than anyone ever had to build a team.  He got disgusted and
refused
> to
> > > pay
> > > > a
> > > > > top coach, but agreed to extend Walker and Pierce, who he's paid
> this
> > > > year,
> > > > > as well as Baker.  Sterling's roster costs him less than half as
> much,
> > > > $26M
> > > > > right now, which is a whole different animal.  The Celts are
> mid-pack
> > > > > regarding roster cost whereas the Clips are the bottom.
> > > > >
> > > > > Point isn't too hard to gather here.  If you insist on paying the
> very
> > > > least
> > > > > for your players, you'll keep sucking and keep getting top lottery
> > > picks,
> > > > > which keeps your team interesting.  Doesn't mean you'll make the
> > > playoffs
> > > > > eventually, though, but saving $30M in a town where Lakers tickets
> > cost
> > > a
> > > > > bundle means you'll still sell seats.  It's Sterling's business
how
> he
> > > > runs
> > > > > the team; I'll assume he's making money.  What do you care if the
> > Clips
> > > > suck
> > > > > or not?  It's not your club, you don't own jerseys or print them,
> and
> > it
> > > > has
> > > > > nothing to do with the idea that we just locked up 4 years over
the
> > cap
> > > on
> > > > a
> > > > > guy worth no more than Eric Williams.  Does that give you Celtic
> > Pride,
> > > > > Cecil, because we have 3 All-Stars that we're paying the max?
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Cecil" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
> > > > > To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 3:13 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > While Sterling keeps his cost down, his teams generally suck.
> Even
> > > with
> > > > a
> > > > > > putrid owner, we made it to the ECFs last year.  When have the
> Clips
> > > > done
> > > > > > that?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cecil
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Lance Jacobson <lancejacob@attbi.com>
> > > > > > To: Michael Gooen <callmebogie@yahoo.com>; <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:12 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Not sure you're following Jim's response, Mike.  He's saying
> that
> > > > > Sterling
> > > > > > > doesn't need Kenny's expiring contract in order to keep his
> costs
> > > > down.
> > > > > > > He's got young players who now expect to be paid their market
> > value
> > > > once
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > rookie contracts expire, and he'll keep one or none of them,
> > trading
> > > > > them
> > > > > > > while they're cheap for draft picks or even younger players
plus
> a
> > > > > little
> > > > > > > value.  He loves those picks because he gets talent for cheap
> > money.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Meanwhile, we do the opposite.  We give away picks or
first-year
> > > > players
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > order to get mediocre, expensive players, and watch our young
> guys
> > > > > develop
> > > > > > > elsewhere.  Did we get value for Billups?  Mercer?  Moiso? JJ?
> > > Forte?
> > > > > How
> > > > > > > about the 22nd pick we gave up this year?  For that money, we
> took
> > > on
> > > > > > > Bremer, who didn't make the second round, much less mid-first
> > round.
> > > > > > Stupid
> > > > > > > management.
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Michael Gooen" <callmebogie@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:58 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Beating a Dead Horse
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Since it's always more fun to focus on trades that might
have
> > been
> > > > > than
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > an all-time-record loss.....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jim Hill wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > <<The Clippers are under the cap and don't need the expiring
> > > > contract.
> > > > > > > > Therefore Sterling has no need to trade for Anderson and
throw
> > > that
> > > > > > > > money down the toilet while giving up two potential future
all
> > > stars
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > nothing.>>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wasn't suggesting that the Cs could have gotten both
players,
> > only
> > > > > one.
> > > > > > > > And I don't see what the Clippers' cap situation has to do
> with
> > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > > > If you're Donald Sterling, wouldn't you rather pay Kenny
> > Anderson
> > > > (or
> > > > > > > > anyone else) $9 million for one year and get draft picks to
> whom
> > > you
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > > pay $1-2 million for four or five years than pay someone
like
> > > > > Olowokandi
> > > > > > > > or Brand $90 million over 6 years?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Maybe I'm wrong about Sterling's motivations.  Let's see
> whether
> > > > > > > > Olowokandi and Miller get their money.
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