Re: 200 bucks for this!

["Michael & Carmen Keith" <mikeandcarmen@pdq.net>]

I appreciate the compliment, but please remember that I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination.  I have learned a lot by talking to others in the racing community who truly are experts on suspension setup, & I do enjoy sharing that information with others.  However, I still have a lot to learn myself.  The point that I am getting at is that before undertaking something that is going to change the handling dynamics of your car, the consultation of a true suspension expert is worth its weight in gold. 

 

This is especially true if you are going to try to dial understeer out of your car.  There are many different sway bars out there, & you run the risk of going too far the other way & making your car twitchy & unpredictable, especially in the rain (& snow if applicable) if you make the wrong choice.  For instance, if I am racing in the rain, I actually detach my rear sway bar completely.

 

As for specific rear sway bar recommendations for the GLX, I couldn't make any because I can't afford to modify mine.  Guess where my extra money goes.

 

Something that I would recommend, if you don't already, is to take your car to an autocross as it is now.  Then, after you make any modifications, autocross the car again.  This will help you determine what effect, if any, that your modification had on your car's handling.  If your modification did cause any adverse effects on the car's handling, you probably won't notice them until you really push the car hard, & it's better to discover these things when surrounded by cones than it is to discover them when surrounded by traffic, curbs, & barriers.

 

By the way, I have a race in Corpus Christi on the 17th, & I'm going to increase the stiffness of my rear sway bar (it's adjustable).  We'll see what happens!

 

Good luck with your handling mods.  Let me know how it goes.

 

Later!

 

Michael Keith

Pasadena, TX

'98 Jetta GLX

'85 Golf SCCA ITB

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Cooley <chriscooley@worldnet.att.net>
To: jettaglx@igtc.com <jettaglx@igtc.com>
Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: 200 bucks for this!

M&C Keith,
Good thoughts. I appreciate your taking the time to explain common physics of sway bars.  From someone who may, if $$ allow, make the investment in sway bars, purchase a sway bar , it will be first a rear due solely from your posting.  It seems to me that all front wheel drive cars have an inherent understeer, thus from the logic of our insight, a stiff rear sway bar should be standard issue of the GLX - given its "sport" suspension upgrades.

Cheers,
Chris

Michael & Carmen Keith wrote:

I don't have any Shine Racing products myself; so I can't comment from
specific experience.  However, I do know that while a rear sway bar should
increase roll stiffness to some degree, it won't be as noticeable as a
change in the front sway bar.  What you really want from a rear sway bar is
to reduce understeer.  Sway bars are meant to do more than simply increase
roll stiffness.  They are meant to fine tune a car's handling, but they
actually affect the opposite end of the car.  For instance, to reduce
understeer, you add a bigger rear sway bar which promotes oversteer, & if
you want to reduce oversteer (which would almost never be the case in our
cars), then you would add a bigger front sway bar.  In other words, as you
increase the roll stiffness on one end of the car relative to the other end,
grip is actually reduced on the end that you are increasing roll stiffness.
I know this sounds weird, & I don't completely understand it myself.  If you
talk to someone who is well versed in race car setup, he/she could probably
explain it better.

A real life example is the understeering problem I am having with my race
car.  In order to resolve it, I am going to increase the stiffness of the
rear sway bar (it's adjustable).  If that doesn't work, I am actually going
to remove my Neuspeed front sway bar.  If removing the Neuspeed bar from the
front makes the car oversteer excessively, I am either going to put a stock
front sway bar on or dial some of the stiffness out of the rear sway bar.

Roll stiffness is not the only measure of good handling, & with all the
suspension mods that you already have on the car, I would not expect a rear
sway bar to increase stiffness noticeably.  However, the factory sets our
cars up to understeer severely.  Understeering is the handling
characteristic most favored by product liability lawyers because it insures
that the car won't spin (unless you really screw up).  Therefore, if you go
out & take that corner that used to make the car plow like a tractor, you
should notice that it rotates through that turn considerably better with the
addition of the rear sway bar.

Michael Keith
Pasadena, TX
'98 Jetta GLX
'85 Golf SCCA ITB
-----Original Message-----
From: MAOberer@aol.com <MAOberer@aol.com>
To: gti-vr6@cobra.ccsi.com <gti-vr6@cobra.ccsi.com>; jettaglx@igtc.com
<jettaglx@igtc.com>
Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 1:54 AM
Subject: 200 bucks for this!

>Let the flames begin...
> About a week ago, I ordered a Shine rear sway bar for my 95 Jetta GLX.  It
>comes in the mail today, I pull it out of the box and its a 3' bar of metal
>with finger sized tubes coming out of both sides (4 total). and 4 bolts.
But
>I put aside the thought that I just paid two hundred bucks for 20 bucks
worth
>of metal powdercoated, and installed it.  The installation wasn't too bad,
and
>then I headed out for some "spirited" driving.  The bar did help stiffen a
bit
>of the steering, but not enough IMO to warrant $200.  I also have on the
car
>Eibach springs, Bilstein shocks and a nuespeed upper strut bar.  To be
honest
>with everyone, I wasn't that impressed.  I know you die hard shiners are
going
>to jump me on this, but I had heard that this Shine bar was the end-all,
be-
>all of sway bars.  I was looking to reduce body roll in my car, and in my
>perception, that did not happen.  All I did was stiifen up a torsion bar
for
>200 bills.
> I'm sorry at the contreversy this is going to cause, but I felt the need
to
>voice my opinion to the list.  And I will be returning the bar, its just
not
>worth it.
>
>thanks,
>Matt
>95 GLX "let down by a sway bar edition"