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Re: It's only a matter of time before Iverson departs

On Mar 15, 2004, at 11:11 AM, Berry, Mark S wrote:

Josh wrote:

he's a top ten NBA talent. (Shaq, Duncan,

Kobe, KG, McGrady, Kidd, Nowitski, Pierce, Iverson, James)

--- --- ---

Josh, are you openly challenging me? This is a test, isn't it? Well,
I'll throw my two cents in (surprise, surprise ... )



Top 10:



Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Garnett
T-Mac
Kidd
Nowitzki
James (if not now, certainly within a year or two)
Yao Ming (if we're projecting for LeBron, we have to do the same for
Yao)
Jermaine O'Neal
Peja Stojakovic

I'd say that while Peja is playing phenomonaly this season (at least better than my spelling), I think he's benefitting from the system and the talent around him as opposed to being a dominant talent. Swap him for (say) Pierce and he doesn't look as good. I'm simply saying I don't think he belongs in that top 10-11 tier. But i'd damn sure want him on my team.

I'm also not sold on J. O'Neal's belonging to this group. He may very well prove it during the upcoming playoffs, but until then, its a gropu of top 9 for me.

With James and Ming -- i don't thnk much projecting is needed. They both change the game for those aroudn them. james with his all-around play and passing, Ming with his dominance (albeit awkwardly) on the offensive end. He needs to be a better rebounder to maekt that top tier, IMO.


OK, that's 11, but those are the guys I'd consider clear upgrades on
Pierce and Iverson, who I lump in the next group along with guys like
Ray Allen, Michael Finley, Carmello Anthony, Baron Davis, Steve Francis,
Steve Nash, Mike Bibby, Elton Brand, Pau Gasol, Kenyon Martin, and a few
others. I'm not so sure I'm rating the point guards high enough. Steve
Nash probably is the most valuable Maverick. Bibby is terribly
underrated (not underpaid).

I generally agree here, but think there are 2 groups within this group:

top tier: Pierce, Iverson, Anthony, Davis, Brand & Nash (who *I* think is probably the most underrated -- watching him against the Rockets the other day, I'd put him a simple notch behind Kidd as the best PG in the NBA).

the 2nd tier: Allen, Finley, Bibby, Francis, Gasol, Martin.

for the same reason you say there's a cut off in the top 10 -- Pierce, iverson, nash, etc. make their teamates (or teams) much better.

Anyway, Pierce is out of the elite group until he returns to 2001-02
form. In that top 11, by the way, there's a clear cutoff in my mind.
Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, T-Mac and Kidd are the truly elite players,
with LeBron and Yao well on their way to joining that list. Nowitzki,
Jermaine O'Neal and Peja are a notch below because they don't make
everyone better -- the others do.

While this might seem like quibling, I'm torn on putting T-Mac in the top rung. I think he's dominant offensively, but I don't know if there is much evidence that he makes other players better.

(the other) mark