Re: word usage

[Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i@xxxxxxxxx>]

Per Snoop, I'll take this off the list and discuss it
(if need be) personally with him or whomever.  It was
never my intention to make a heretofore Celtics
related discussion board discuss the merits of a word.
 But I still do think the usage was warranted.  But,
that said, it'll never be written again (by me that
is).  My apologies.

Ryan
--- Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
<snoopy@celticsbeagle.net> wrote:
> At 02:47 PM 4/12/03 -0700, Ryan W wrote:
> >Let me spell out the usage.  Racism is wrong.  It
> is
> >irrational to discriminate on the basis of skin
> color.
> >  Likewise it is irrational to say that if one
> plays
> >defense very well without providing offensive, then
> it
> >warrants playing time (a la Grant Long), turning
> >around later and not playing Kedrick Brown.
> >
> >Let's put it like this:
> >
> >Proposition One:  Players who play defense very
> well
> >will get playing time (a paraphrase of what O'Brien
> >said earlier this year--and the only reason Grant
> Long
> >gets time).
> >
> >Proposition Two:  Kedrick Brown plays great defense
> >(attested by Paul, Antione, coach O'Brien, me, you,
> >Tommy, etc...)
> >
> >Conclusion:  Kedrick Brown should get playing time.
> >
> >But Kedrick Brown doesn't see the light of
> day...and
> >when he does, and is praised, he later gets a
> >reduction of playing time to about 1-2 meaningless
> >minutes.  And so, like racist people (who, as I
> will
> >later address, perhaps would describe an African
> >American person as a "******"---which I won't write
> >here, because, yes, it is offensive in this usage),
> >O'Brien is being either irrational or stupid (or
> maybe
> >his stupidity is a sign of his irrational nature).
> >
> >And so, back to the analogy which was stated as
> "What
> >does a nigger have to do to get some PT up in this
> >motherfucker?" originally, I was commenting on the
> >analogous situations of irrational discrimination
> (one
> >being the irrationality of racism, the other the
> >irrationality of not playing Kedrick Brown given
> the
> >criterion for getting playing time).  If you didn't
> >get it, sorry.
> 
> You believe that Kedrick Brown was discriminated
> against by his coach; and 
> deliberately use a word in the context of
> discrimination that is so 
> lethally charged with emotion and history that if
> you DIDN'T know it would 
> be offensive, you would almost have to be a moron. 
> That's simply not an 
> acceptable defense--or usage, in that instance.
> 
> > > Not only that, but the fact that the Celtics as
> a
> > > team have such a long and
> > > well-documented history of fighting racism, that
> the
> > > use of the word in
> > > describing a Celtics player is mind-boggling.
> >
> >This is a total misrepresentation.  "Nigger" as a
> >word, concept, or idea was used in part of a larger
> >description concerning irrationality (as I've
> already
> >pointed out).  It was *not* used to describe a
> >Celtic's player.  Come on, Snoop...before seeing
> >something and immediately correlating racist
> intent,
> >please check out the usage.  Anything came be used
> for
> >beneficial or improper means, including the word
> >"nigger", and one must look past the mere
> >instantiation of the word to discover and judge its
> >application.
> 
> You said of Kedrick, "What does a *****have to do to
> get playing 
> time?"  How is that not being used to describe him,
> when you previously 
> stated--in your own words, above--that you WERE in
> fact, using that word to 
> describe him in this situation.
> 
> I'm a professional writer, Ryan.  I've travelled
> extensively in my life, 
> and met lots of people whose views on race (among
> myriad other subjects) 
> are as diverse as snowflakes in a blizzard.  I've
> had extensive discussions 
> with several of them over the years, and I've yet to
> see a modern usage of 
> the word that was in any way inoffensive.
> 
> Speaking of "checking the usage" of words, please do
> not misquote me.  I 
> went out of my way NOT to suggest that you had
> racist intent.  I 
> specifically stated that WHATEVER your intent, what
> came across was 
> something that could easily PERCEIVED as racist.  I
> don't know your intent, 
> only it's effects.  Your efforts to defend your
> choice of words have been, 
> to me anyway, unconvincing.
> 
> >Don't worry, I not taking anything you say as the
> >intention to start a beef.  I'm just showing you
> where
> >you're wrong :)
> 
> But the problem is, you HAVEN'T shown that.  You've
> made contradictory 
> statements in an attempt to defend a choice of
> expression that was, at 
> best, questionable in it's use.
> 
> And I can see where this is going.  People are going
> to start weighing in 
> on this subject, instead of concentrating on the
> Celtics.  I think that 
> ideally, we should just agree to disagree and move
> on.  Failing that, I 
> think this subject might be better taken off the
> list, and those who might 
> wish to continue discussion may do so without
> weighing down the list with a 
> topic that isn't really suited to the list as a
> whole.
> 
> Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
> Please visit the
> <http://www.celticsbeagle.net/>Celtics Beagle
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