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RE: Paul Pierce
Oh so you were WRONG about Delk last year. But you are NOT wrong about
Pierce this year? You have just proven that things change and players
improve. Thank you for your admission. That's real progress.
Does Paul have more assists and rebounds right now then last year at the
same point?
Cecil
-----Original Message-----
From: Lance Jacobson [mailto:lancejacob@attbi.com]
Sent: November 27, 2002 12:55 PM
To: Wright, Cecil; celtics@igtc.com
Subject: Re: Paul Pierce
First, please remember that EVERY player has areas of their game to improve.
Don't bother restating it. It's overly simplistic.
Second, you're willing to see if Pierce works on his weaknesses. So am I.
I'm not willing to say he HAS worked on them. You have, and I disagree,
based on what I see. You show no evidence to the contrary. Maybe you'll
get Tammo to tell you what Paul's been doing in the offseason, from some
unnamed source. Don't count on that being accepted as fact.
Trotting out Delk's stats is NOT useless. I know what he did last year, and
suggested that he be traded, as he wasn't as valuable as Strickland. Now
he's gotten open looks and is hitting the shot. Why? Well, because very
few NBA players are consistent from the corners of the 3pt arc. Most don't
get guarded down there. If he and SWill run to both corners, they're open
or the whole middle is. Since that's working, Pierce shoot have more room
to shoot, but he's not hitting shots. That's obvious, since the shot
attempts are up, but percent is down. Following me so far?
So, the answer is to draw the players up to the top and hit the shooters in
the corners. Obie's asked the captains to pass more, and Twan's shots are
down, Paul's are up. So, you can say he's passing more, but he's also
passing less, since he's shooting more. Is that possible?
Yes, because there's no Point Guard. He shoots more and passes more because
he sees the ball more. Big deal. His turnoves are higher as well.
The answer is to get more time for SWill and Delk. That comes at the
expense of the team's worst shooter, Pierce. Right. Only Sundov and Bremer
are shooting worse than this overrated All-Star. Let's send a note to those
9 GMs who passed on him. Don't think they need to know right now, they're
busy working with they're 1-9 picks to win games.
It's funny how you dismiss Delk and talk about last year. We have players
now doing different things. You play what works and develop the youngsters.
Pierce is doing NOTHING better, and so should lose some minutes to those
that are. Would I bench him? No, but I wouldn't force his minutes when
he's not performing.
It's one thing to give him status as a captain. It's another thing to give
him major minutes so he can pick up another scoring record when he's the
10th worst shooter on the team.
Oh, why don't you ask Obie if Paul and Twan are still the scorers. He may
have other thoughts on that now. He's also tried to open up the game for
the teammates, as our downfall in the NJ series was that they could key on
Twan and PP and nobody else could score. Seems that NJ can't do that now.
But you're proud of Paul's 6 assists? Well, a guard ought to get 6 assists
when playing 40 minutes and shooting like crap. I'll give him some credit
for 13 rebounds, but he's the only Celtic who doesn't box out, and goes
right for the ball. Maybe that's his role, but it's not the same as working
for a rebound the way his teammates do.
But that's a small point, even if Tommy Heinsohn gets livid about it. And
Mutombo has one role in life: rebounding. If Battie doesn't get
outrebounded by Deke, there's a whole lot wrong. Meanwhile, PP doesn't even
have to guard Jefferson; he gets Kittles and Harris, who TOTAL 5.9 bounds in
51 minutes. Big freakin' deal.
You just see what you want to, Cecil. That's fine, but I'll show you the
rest of the story. There's no tooth fairy, Santa Clause or Easter bunny,
either. Sorry to break the news.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wright, Cecil" <Cecil.Wright@JUSTICE.GC.CA>
To: <celtics@igtc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 11:06 AM
Subject: RE: Paul Pierce
> You forgot Rule #4.
>
> As has been stated by others Lance, Paul has areas of his game to improve.
> I am willing to see if he works on it or not. You have your mind made up
> already apparently. Cool.
>
> Troting out Delk's stats are useless and I'll tell you why. You attribute
> his shooting increase to what? I attribute it to the fact that he has had
> an entire preseason and his stint with the team last year to become more
> familiar with his role. He didn't hit these shots last year, and in fact,
> many on this list wanted to dump his ass. Now listen to you talk about
him
> in glowing terms. Were you so willing for Delk to hoist shots last year?
> You weren't involved with this list at that time, so maybe others can
> support your claim, whatever it is.
>
> In the game vs Jersey when Delk and Shammond each had 21 points, do you
> recall who it was who got them the ball? Toine had 7 assists while Paul
had
> 6 and 13 boards, of which 4 were offensive. Most folks would call that a
> pretty good team effort. Do you? I doubt it. You force yourself to find
> something to cite as cause for Paul to be sat. You cannot have it both
> ways. Obie has stated that Pierce and Toine are the scorers. When other
> guys step up, that is wonderful, for surely the captains need the support.
> But your harping on one thing (Paul)is pointless. Why not harp on Battie
> for rebounding less than Paul in that game. If he truly wanted to help
the
> C's, should he be our leading rebounder in EVERY game? That would be an
> equally foolish question.
>
> Cecil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lance Jacobson [mailto:lancejacob@attbi.com]
> Sent: November 27, 2002 11:36 AM
> To: Wright, Cecil; celtics@igtc.com
> Subject: Re: Paul Pierce
>
>
> Cecil, rule #1 of internet boards is that you deal with what's posted to
the
> group, not what you read elsewhere.
>
> Rule #2 is that you're accurate in what you restate from someone's post.
>
> Rule #3 is that you make a modicum of sense.
>
> My criticism of Pierce has changed, sir. Last year he was a ball hog but
> shot at a better percentage than Twan. This year he's a lousy shooter,
> still shooting plenty, and even though his assists are up, so are his
> turnovers. He's a freakin' ALL-STAR for gosh sakes, don't you expect
> ANYTHING from the arrogant, coach-bashing, self-promoting guy? He was the
> focus of TEAM USA for the entire series.
>
> And all you can say regarding his sloppy passing is that "everyone else
> universally recognizes that Paul has worked on improving it."
>
> Where's the evidence of that? He's handling the ball more, shooting more,
> and passing more.
>
> Show me HOW he's worked on passing BETTER!!!!
>
> Yap, yap, yap. . .there's not a single fact in your UNIVERSAL
representation
> of the REALITY.
>
> You write that there are small segments when others play well. Do you
need
> me to post the stats on Tony Delk's improvement in scoring AND MAJOR
> MINUTES vs.last season?
>
> Here's a sample:
> YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
> 01-02 BOS 22 16 25.9 .349 .299 .733 .90 2.70 3.60 2.3 1.00 .27 .86
1.70
> 7.4
> 02-03 BOS 12 12 34.3 .421 .493 .800 .70 3.30 3.90 2.9 1.58 .08 1.17
> 2.40 12.8
>
>
> He's playing 34.3 mpg, shooting 42.1% (up7.2%) and hitting 3s at over 49%
> vs. Paul's 38% and 26.2% on 3s.
>
> Anybody who's a fan of basketball and isn't biased in favor of a
> big-mouthed, L.A-raised, Magic Johnson-chasing,
> Teach-9-GMS-and-George-Karl-a-Lesson-vowing jerk would play Delk over
> Pierce. And that means REDUCING Paul's time on the floor. Yes, I wrote
it.
> Wow!
>
> This is why I get so ADAMANT in my responses to you. You write like a
civil
> servant. . .a whole page with no real factual basis. COME ON, CECIL, do
> some RESEARCH before you call people names.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wright, Cecil" <Cecil.Wright@JUSTICE.GC.CA>
> To: <celtics@igtc.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 10:15 AM
> Subject: RE: Paul Pierce
>
>
> > His criticism of Paul is so regular that Lance doesn't really have to
come
> > out and say it does he? He has said that his PT should be cut back to
30
> > minutes per game. That is not an increase. He mentioned that the team
> > plays better without him and points to small segments when another
scorer
> > plays well as evidence. He belittles his passing when I think everyone
> else
> > universally recognizes that Paul has worked on improving it. And as I
> said
> > to you before, he is on more than just these two boards. You have no
idea
> > of what Lance says elsewhere. But you are free to defend him if you
wish
> > AFAIC.
> >
> > Cecil Wright
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: JB [mailto:jimmetz@mac.com]
> > Sent: November 27, 2002 10:48 AM
> > To: Celtics List
> > Subject: Fwd: Paul Pierce
> >
> >
> > > I've read all of Lance's posts on both boards and I've never read
> > > that he wants to bench Pierce. His criticisms of Pierce are well known
> > > and although, in most of our opinions, he does go over the line of
> > > common sense, in some of the charges, his main point; that there is
> > > an inherent selfishness in his game, which needs to be ironed out, has
> > > not only been stated by the coach and teammates of the USA team, this
> > > summer, but been picked up by other reputable NBA observers. For
> > > better or worse, true or not, it's become part of the NBA folklore,
> > > with or without Lance's observations.
> > > Why do you think that O'Brien was quoted in the 11/25 Bulpet column
> > > {http://www.bostonherald.com/sport/celtics/cs11252002.htm}, as
> > > saying that :
> > > {``We had 22 assists,'' O'Brien said of Saturday's 109-99 win over
> > > the Hawks in Atlanta, ``and we went 31-5 last year when we had 22 or
> > > more assists in a game. We talk about unselfishness all the time.''} ?
> > > Both Pierce and Walker are shooting at around a .380 clip. To me,
> > > this is unacceptable for players taking 50 shots per game. I suspect
> > > it's unacceptable for O'Brien also.
> > > No one, not even Lance, has suggested that Pierce be benched, only
> > > that he become more of a team player, particularly when his shot is
> > > not falling; either because of the defensive attention he is now
> > > receiving, or the fatigue of his summer schedule, or a possible hidden
> > > injury, it doesn't matter.
> > > It seems that every coach in the league is on that "unselfishness"
> > > bandwagon. Bill Russell called it "team ego." That mentality wins
> > > championships, not scoring titles.
> > > Lance has a tough enough time defending what he does say, lets not
> > > vilify him for things he never said.
> > > JB
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, November 26, 2002, at 11:06 PM, Shawn Niles wrote:
> > >
> > >> Well I certainly didn't do it to please Lance. I actually maybe did
> > >> it for a little bit of selfish reasons. I think Lance really thinks
> > >> most people agree with him that Pierce should be benched. I was
> > >> interested in seeing what the difference in votes would be. As of
> > >> now, it is 25 No's and 4 Yes's.
> > >>
> > >> (Waiting for Lances coy response)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> From: Banner 17 <cel33tics@yahoo.com>
> > >>> To: celtics@igtc.com
> > >>> Subject: Re: Paul Pierce
> > >>> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:52:20 -0800 (PST)
> > >>>
> > >>> Exactly my thoughts, Why bother? I think it was Greg O who posted
> > >>> this quote a few years back "When you wrestle the pig, the pig
> > >>> enjoys it." Enough said.
> > >>>
> > >>> Eggcentric@AOL.com wrote:
> > >>> << I have given Lance his wish. I added a poll to my website asking
> > >>> if Pierce
> > >>> should be benched. >> - shizzjr
> > >>>
> > >>> Is this a joke? Why bother? Lance has found his Pierce niche on four
> > >>> different boards. I would think him to be clever and funny if he was
> > >>> not such
> > >>> an attention-seeking, insulting, two-years-and-counting, one-trick
> > >>> BORE.
> > >>>
> > >>> Impossible to debate him with logic; impossible to insult him.
> > >>>
> > >>> Egg
> > >>> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _________________________________________________________________
> > >> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > >> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
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