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Re: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest V9 #192
Well let's see.... Tammo, I will mark my responses to your questions with a
"**" so you can follow my rambling style. I am not looking to escalate into
a heated exchange, though I like a good argument for sport, this is my
opinion. I do not denounce your opinion, FWIW.
<Jim
James A. Hill wrote:
"The Celtics have three players getting the max $ this year"
I don't think so. Walker- Pierce- who is the third?
**Anderson would be the third max contract I'm talking about. He is the
47th or 51st highest paid player in the league, depending on which site you
use for facts. (Which makes him higher paid then most teams #2 guy and
higher paid then ANYONE on 4-5 whole teams this past year) I think he's at
$9+ Million this coming year, after $8+M this past year. Pierce goes from
$2M to $11m or there about.
"If the Celtics sign Rogers and are one of the 4-5 teams over the salary
capout of 28 this year, does that officially end the being "cheap" issue?
It's not, IMO, that they are cheap."
I disagree. There are already many more than 4 or 5 teams over the cap
and
other teams have recently come out saying they are willing to go over the
cap
too. The Celtics could be left standing in the dust.
**We see how many actually end up over the cap. The Celtics have been in the
top 1/2 of salaries the last few years until this past year(See salary lists
below). They had to clear room for Pierces $85M contract that kicks in this
coming year.
**Look at the lists below and tell me throwing money at these highest paid
teams somehow makes them better then another. It is talent first and
foremost that makes a good team. The Gaston family has always paid their
talent. In fact, the "Bird Rules" comes from them wanting to be able to
keep/pay Bird when he was a player. Overpaying a lower talent doesn't make
them a better player, to paraphrase L. Bird. We didn't have a team that
encouraged free agents to come here from what Hardaway and others have said.
"It that they wasted the money they haves pent by overpaying players they do
have or taking on stupid trades thatcost cap space instead of creating cap
space."
That is true, but the same could be said for just about every franchise and
it doesn't negate the fact that they are being cheap.
**"Because everybody else is stupid too" is your answer? Payroll is subject
to cycles of when you drafted/signed your current players. Pierce was cheap
the past two years. That changes next year. Walker has been overpaid until
last year ($11+M). Wasting all those 1st round (lower contract for 4-5
years)picks will haunt them.
**You still haven't shown any facts that they are cheap though. It's not
like they traded away a real player instead paying him. They haven't had
any players good enough to max out except Walker and Pierce for ten years.
Which is my point on the sentence below.
"Blame the basketball management for screwing up the team not the business
side. Gaston has spent more money then most every other team, it's the
basketball guys who have spent unwisely."
Could you please be specific here? How has Gaston spent more money then
most
any other team? I'm looking at figures here and that just doesn't seem to
be
true.
<A HREF="http://www1.realgm.com/src_teamcap1.php";;>Real GM- Team cap</A>
**You might try Pat Bender's site (http://www.dfw.net/~patricia/) for actual
playing payrolls during the season. You are using current off season, under
contract figures, which are different. (I posted the last three years below)
**Plus that is just the salary figures. Don't forget the "other" expenses
Vs. income in factoring spending. Healthpoint was in the millions and is
state of the art (How many other teams have something as nice as
"Healthpoint"? Some do I'm sure.), Pitino was $22M, 6 coaches on the
payroll (Many get by with 4). The ex-celtics on the payroll to go out into
the community etc... I just don't get where everyone considers him cheap.
Show me one actual instance of his being cheap and I don't mean not signing
a non-starting player to too much money.
**Donald Sterling in Clipperland complains about having to pay for the
players socks. (Apparently the teams need to supply socks/jocks etc... to
these multimillionaire players.) Now that(complaining)is cheap. Heck,
Gaston pays almost everyone on the team more then he gets a year in salary.
I wouldn't, and I bet most on this list wouldn't, but he does.
Besides, didn't Gaston hire the basketball management this has spent
unwisely?
Doesn't he continue to pay their salaries? There is a whole lot of blame to
go around but it starts at the top.
**This could be why he hired Pitino to take over from Red. It was a failure
in many ways but his then current basketball brain trust was past it's prime
and many, including myself, thought it was the way to go. Pitino hired all
the front office and current basketball management. (Gaston kept these guys
this year and gave them a shot on their own which was pretty decent thing to
do. IMO.) This may be why you hear Gaston's name being used as where the
salary line will be drawn. He is the defacto boss now of both business and
basketball. He can't do worse then the past 10 year management.
**As Red has faded Gaston needs to be more involved and is becoming so, it
appears. Who would you go out and hire as head of basketball right now? You
would have to give them the chance to hire their own staff and coaches. You
have to believe this would have disrupted the team and possible Pierces
resigning.
**I think Gaston created a stable environment this past year deserves a lot
of the credit for this team getting to the Eastern Conference Title Game. I
think he did a great job effectively taking over a job he just paid someone
else $22M to do. He made/authorized a risky trade and gave the team and
fans a shot at the Championship. I didn't support the trade, but he could
have sat on his hands all year and said "watch our three draft picks grow"
without many complaints from the fans.
**This trade may backfire on him but I expect him to put up the cash if
Rogers is reasonable in his contract desires. It was probably the first
trade he had as much involvement in by just having a GM and not an actual
"President Of Basketball" to bring him a completed deal. This is very much
his trade also.
**I'd be more upset if he re-signed McCarty for $3M a year again then if he
wouldn't overpay for Rogers in a bidding duel for his services.
<Jim
**These lists are from Pat Benders site and she deserves all the credit for
providing them.
2001-2002 NBA Salaries
As of 12/17/01 Celtics are 22nd out of 29
1. New York Knicks $85,457,889
2. Portland Trailblazers $83,758,700
3. New Jersey Nets $75,172,371
4. Philadelphia 76ers $58,073,366
5. Dallas Mavericks $57,363,430
6. Milwaukee Bucks $56,224,266
7. Phoenix Suns $56,187,219
8. Sacramento Kings $54,921,012
9. Washington Wizards $54,776,087
10. Minnesota Timberwolves $54,559,632
11. Denver Nuggets $54,426,938
12. Los Angeles Lakers $53,458,686
13. Indiana Pacers $53,211,121
14. Utah Jazz $52,642,362
15. Miami Heat $52,605,146
16. Toronto Raptors $52,282,161
17. Atlanta Hawks $51,179,169
18. Memphis Grizzlies $50,920,631
19. Charlotte Hornets $49,999,445
20. Houston Rockets $49,168,169
21. Golden State Warriors $47,681,152
22. Boston Celtics $47,469,112
23. Orlando Magic $45,796,501
24. San Antonio Spurs $45,719,814
25. Cleveland Cavaliers $45,649,974
26. Seattle Sonics $45,431,733
27. Chicago Bulls $42,592,857
28. Detroit Pistons $42,355,177
29. Los Angeles Clippers $33,849,932
2000-2001 NBA Salaries
As of 12/8/00 Celtics are 14th out of 29.
1. Portland Trailblazers $86,506,144
2. New York Knicks $73,556,256
3. Miami Heat $73,409,832
4. New Jersey Nets $68,977,584
5. Washington Wizards $59,085,968
6. Los Angeles Lakers $58,780,711
7. Milwaukee Bucks $57,367,816
8. San Antonio Spurs $57,215,936
9. Indiana Pacers $54,634,640
10. Utah Jazz $53,706,360
11. Phoenix Suns $53,454,844
12. Dallas Mavericks $51,905,574
13. Denver Nuggets $51,814,220
14. Boston Celtics $51,478,704
15. Seattle Sonics $50,635,656
16. Philadelphia 76ers $50,633,956
17. Cleveland Cavaliers $49,780,548
18. Houston Rockets $49,283,308
19. Vancouver Grizzlies $48,198,340
20. Minnesota Timberwolves $47,176,000
21. Charlotte Hornets $46,441,556
22. Sacramento Kings $46,141,288
23. Golden State Warriors $41,849,016
24. Detroit Pistons $40,475,336
25. Atlanta Hawks $39,172,128
26. Toronto Raptors $37,862,248
27. Orlando Magic $36,494,360
28. Chicago Bulls $29,691,904
29. Los Angeles Clippers $29,606,188
1999-2000 NBA Salaries
As of 2/26/00 Celtics are 12th out of 29.
1. Portland Trailblazers $73,898,705
2. New York Knicks $71,340,801
3. Indiana Pacers $54,158,605
4. Los Angeles Lakers $54,123,533
5. New Jersey Nets $52,735,461
6. Washington Wizards $52,648,000
7. Houston Rockets $52,269,366 [adjusted from listing]
8. Miami Heat $50,966,573
9. Utah Jazz $49,206,026
10. Cleveland Cavaliers $46,547,966 [adjusted from listing]
11. Phoenix Suns $46,543,302
12. Boston Celtics $46,152,875
13. Milwaukee Bucks $45,755,447
14. Denver Nuggets $43,205,814 [adjusted from listing]
15. Atlanta Hawks $43,125,502
16. San Antonio Spurs $42,579,801
17. Philadelphia 76ers $42,333,833 [adjusted from listing]
18. Minnesota Timberwolves $42,132,272
19. Detroit Pistons $42,141,801 [adjusted from listing]
20. Orlando Magic $41,586,801 [adjusted from listing]
21. Sacramento Kings $40,113,125
22. Dallas Mavericks $39,479,500
23. Charlotte Hornets $38,619,012
24. Seattle Sonics $38,258,910
25. Vancouver Grizzlies $37,749,568
26. Golden State Warriors $36,133,518
27. Toronto Raptors $34,730,320
28. Chicago Bulls $27,032,368 [adjusted from listing]
29. Los Angeles Clippers $22,489,343 [adjusted from listing]