Re: Where do we go from here? - RealGM

["Orion" <johnlyell@hotmail.com>]

O'Brien hasn't escaped my wrath. I believe he is nothing more than a cheap
interim solution. I would have Dave Cowens or Larry back in the fold. A lot
teams win 40-50 games but only a few go far in the playoffs. Yes a playoff
berth is a some success, but just because it has been over a decade since
the last time we made it, but expect an early out from this team. They just
don't have any depth and the poor drafts, acquisitions, and signings do not
help our future and I am tired of all the excuses everyone comes up with. We
have been waiting for Antoine's game to mature for 3 years. It has, and it
is pretty damn ugly IMO. It may be there, he definitely has the talent, but
he lacks the killer instinct the Birds, Duncan's and Webber's have, and
letting him shot 3's and go 5 for 20 ever other night does not help. He
obviously doesn't work at the 3 spot (if he did we would have kept Fortson)
, and doesn't seem to want to get physical down low to play the 4 spot. So
for $8-10M a year, or whatever he gets,  we have an over paid tweaner.
There are a ton of players in this league that can average 20 a game taking
20-30 shots nightly.


The players and brass deserve the heat, they are paid highly to perform.














----- Original Message -----
From: "Cecil Wright" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
To: <Celtics@igtc.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: Where do we go from here? - RealGM


> While John and others continue to bemoan the fact that Toine shoots
> megathrees, in the below post, even going so far as to compare him to
Free,
> how can it be that Jim O'Brien escapes the wrath?
>
> I am not as able to see into the future as some of you seem to think you
> are.  All I know is this is a team who has already won 30 games with
Walker
> and Pierce bombing away to their heart's content.  Regardless of who the
> competition is, despite their records or what conference they represent,
> this team is playing .566 ball.
>
> They are doing it, in large part, with the outside shooting of Pierce and
> Walker, with splashes of Strickland and Anderson.  They are what they are,
> and that is a very weak inside team.  Why Toine gets the lions share of
the
> blame for this is mysterious to me.  I said a long time ago when Obie got
> the job...his strategy is for Walker and Pierce to shoot the 3.  It has
been
> successful for them thus far but he, Wallace and Dr. Jack know there must
be
> additions to this team which will provide that missing section of the
puzzle
> as well as a PG.
>
> Why you continue to harp on this issue is intriguing.  Walker for Wallace?
> Think Rasheed would just blend in here with the way our mediots go for the
> jugular like a hyena?  No thanks.
>
> Cecil
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Orion" <johnlyell@hotmail.com>
> To: <CeltsSteve@AOL.com>; <Celtics@igtc.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Where do we go from here? - RealGM
>
>
> > Unfortunately the time will come when the C's do wise up and move
Walker.
> > Hopefully it is while he still has value to someone.
> >
> > Yeah , he will win games for you, but he will  lose more, especially
> against
> > the better teams, and at playoff time if we make it there.
> >
> > As mentioned a 4 who think he's World B. Free spells trouble for any
team.
> I
> > would move him for Wallace. Rasheed has a better low post game that we
> need
> > badly. It would be nice to get Wallace and Bonzi giving up say Walker
and
> > one of the rookies and some cap fodder.
> >
> > Lamar Odom could be on his way out also. Baron Davis has been rumored in
> > deals with the Clippers. Unfortunately Brand is a better 4 and they have
> > Miles at the 3 so Walker would not be in their future.
> >
> >  I am just not sure how many places would see him as a fit. Most would
> find
> > it unacceptable for a 4 not to play the position and lead the league in
> 3's.
> > Unfortunately it is one of the Celtics few drawing cards.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <CeltsSteve@AOL.com>
> > To: <Celticsstuffgroup@yahoogroups.com>; <Celtics@igtc.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 10:16 AM
> > Subject: Where do we go from here? - RealGM
> >
> >
> > > Where do we go from here?
> > >
> > > I know the Celtics have a lot of holes. We're a first round loss
waiting
> > to
> > > happen and in Boston that is just not good enough. But even worse, it
> > doesn't
> > > look like we're going to be "Championship Driven" in the next couple
of
> > years
> > > (barring a minor miracle).
> > >
> > > Right now I'd say that we're set at one position: small forward with
> > Pierce.
> > > Not to hate on Antoine, but until we have a Mutumbo style center
playing
> > next
> > > to him, I'm not comfortable with a PF leading the league in 3 point
> > attempts
> > > (leading the f%*king NBA? that's more threes than Eddie Jones, Ray
> Allen,
> > > Peja, and our very own Paul Pierce).
> > >
> > > So instead of pointing out all the problems we have, I'm asking you --
> the
> > > fans -- a question: Where can the Celtics get better? Not in a dream
> > world,
> > > add Jason Kidd and Tim Duncan sense, but in a real world, trade for a
> > Byron
> > > Russell, sign a Michael Olowokandi type of situation.
> > >
> > > It seems like an easy question to answer: "We need a true point
guard,"
> > > that's the first thought in my mind (Especially after watching EStrick
> and
> > > Kenny try to run the show against Seattle's zone. You'd think neither
of
> > them
> > > had seen a zone in their life!). But, there are only two true points
in
> > the
> > > East (JKidd and Andre Miller). So fixing the point situation is out.
> > >
> > > "Center! If we can't fix our PG problems then at least we can get a
> > > workmanlike center." OK, reasonable. Maybe we could get a Brad Miller
> type
> > or
> > > a Dale Davis to bang inside, get 10 boards a game, and allow Antoine
to
> > roam
> > > the perimeter (can you tell that I think Antoine should play inside
> > more???).
> > > IF, and that's a big if, we get someone like Dale Davis, I'll be
happy.
> > >
> > > "What about a swing man who can shoot the trey? Take some of the
> pressure
> > off
> > > our two big guns?" OK. Who's out there? Jalen Rose? Not gonna happen.
A
> > three
> > > point specialist? Is Dale Ellis still in the league, cause I know he
was
> > > twice the player Hubert Davis still is. Other than someone off the
bench
> > to
> > > shoot a couple times a game (ex-Celtic Brian Shaw being the role
model),
> I
> > > don't think the C's can swing a trade for a big name guy to play 2 or
3
> > > alongside Pierce.
> > >
> > > "What about trading Antoine for someone like Rasheed Wallace?" I hate
> how
> > > Antoine plays offense, I hate his ego, but I love his heart and soul.
No
> > > offense to Pierce, but Antoine is still the glue guy on this team and
> it's
> > > most talented player (even if he doesn't always show it). No way we
can
> > trade
> > > a building block like Antoine.
> > >
> > > "So what about our own team? Could we play better on offense? Can one
of
> > the
> > > rooks step up?" This is my main hope for the future. Kedrick looks
like
> > the
> > > real deal, but not this year. As for coaching, I love Obie, but he's
> going
> > to
> > > find out quick that unless you have three guys who can NAIL the trey,
> you
> > > shouldn't be leading the league in 3PA. Sac-town (with Bibby,
Christie,
> > > Peja), LA (with Fischer, Kobe, Shaw, Fox, Horry), Milwakee (with
Casell,
> > > Allen, Robinson, Thomas) would all make more sense to be leading the
> > league
> > > in attempts than the C's. My two cents? Antoine starts at "power"
> forward,
> > > he's gotta start playing like one. Because Vitaly and Batite combine
for
> > one
> > > post move between them (Vitaly's up fake), Antoine has gotta get his
ass
> > on
> > > the block on offense. And if Antoine gets doubled, he has to look for
an
> > open
> > > Pierce, then an open Vitaly, and lastly for Walter McCarty (who's
> actually
> > > been playing decent lately). I truly feel that if Antoine played
inside,
> > > Kenny could move the ball around, Strickland or Eric Williams would
get
> a
> > ton
> > > of space, and Pierce would still score close to 30 a night.
> > >
> > > Dan Kahn is the webmaster and content supervisor for
celtics.realgm.com,
> > he
> > > can be reached at Daniel.Kahn@tufts.edu
> > >
> > > <A HREF="http://celtics.realgm.com/articles.php">Back to Articles</A>
> > >
> > > CeltsSteve