RE: Celts may be able to pluck a plum

[OzerskyJA <OzerskyJA@cmog.org>]

I love Kobe, don't get me wrong, and agree with Mark that the Celtics should
mortgage everything this side of Walter Brown's headstone to get him.  But
let's not get carried away.  He's not as good as Michael, even the late
version Michael.  He's in Michael's league as a scorer, but then so was
Bernard King, Dominique Wilkins, George Gervin, Larry Joe Bird, and quite a
few other players, to say nothing of the great centers.  He doesn't have
Michael's physical skills, because he doesn't have Michael's bullish upper
body strength, which allowed him to get hammered in mid air and still get a
shot off again and again.  Nor is he a terror in the passing lanes, like
Michael was, nor is he as fundamentally solid as Michael was.  Is there
anything else?  As far as him being the best player in the game, he's up
there, but I would still rather have Tim Duncan at this point.  There have
been a lot of amazingly skilled off-guards in the history of the league, and
even if Kobe turns out to be better than Jerry West and John Havlicek (which
is a long way coming) he's still no Michael Jordan at this stage.  I will
say he is without a doubt the top off guard in the league, with plenty of
room to grow.  And that's scary enough.  

The reason I'm making this point is that you trade Walker + Pierce + picks
for Michael Jordan; you don't trade them for Earl Monroe, Sidney Moncrief,
or Pete Maravich.  Or do you?  I guess it doesn't matter, since we won't be
seeing Kobe in Celtic green until he's almost ready to retire.

Josh Ozersky	
Marketing Communications Specialist 
Corning Museum of Glass

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Trond E Jacobsen [SMTP:trond@gladstone.uoregon.edu]
> Sent:	Tuesday, January 16, 2001 2:27 PM
> To:	"I am. . . Anonymous"
> Cc:	=?iso-8859-1?q?=22Berry@gladstone.uoregon.edu; ?= Mark  S";
> "'celtics@igtc.com'"
> Subject:	Re: Celts may be able to pluck a plum
> 
> -------------------
> > Why would the Lakers trade Bryant?  I think the
> > question is why the Celts would trade Walker and
> > Pierce and all their picks for Kobe.  So then Kobe can
> > ball-hog on a barren Celtic team and get an attitude
> > with the coach?  Eventually, after the Celts continue
> > to lose, the Boobirds will be out to trade "selfish"
> > Kobe for Mercer.  
> 
> I disagree. Now at 20/21 Kobe is extremely selfish at times...however
> from a physical skills standpoint he is possibly the best in the NBA,
> or at least among the best.  There is nothing he can't do.  I think it
> unlikely the Lakers would trade him,. in part because West has long
> believed he could very well become the best player in the history of
> the league. I think it highly likely that he will, barring career
> destroying injury. He has the complete range of skills, the
> intelligence, the competitive drive, that Jordan had and, like Jordan,
> he will mature over time.  Our chance to get a plausible candidate for
> best player (at least guard) of all time is NOW, while he is creating
> problems from selfishness, before he matures and the Lakers have zero
> reason to trade him.
> 
> Again, the probability of trade is less than 20%, but in three years,
> when he is 24 and the best player in the league, they will never trade
> him.  Strike now while there is some chance and wait the few years as
> he matures, while adding to hiss talent, which is easier using him as
> a draw for other quality players. ( Tim, how'd you like to play for
> the storied Celtics with Kobe?)
> 
> Kobe is already maybe the best player skill wise. I see nothing Jordan
> could do he can't (physically), plus he is a much better rebounder (in
> part due to 2 additional inches) and the maturity will come because he
> is just too smart and competitive to accept not getting championships.
> Trade the whole team if necessary to get him.  Are you afraid to lose
> the unselfish, team oriented Pierce and Walker (NOT) for a superior
> skills player? This team is going nowhere with those two and the
> collection of sad sacks that fill out the rest of the roster. 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile... the Lakers will have
> > the most dominant front-line in the league with Shaq,
> > Toine, and Pierce and with the additional draft picks
> > will win at least half of the championships from here
> > until 2010.
> 
> With Walker bombing treys because there is no room for him to move
> inside (and miss below the rim layups) because Shaq is there? Please.
> Even if they do win a number between now and 2010, so what! We would
> also have a shot at winning, at least if we restore some sanity to the
> personnel strategies and bring in good people to complement Kobe. You
> you think Walker, Pierce + Shaq would get along? 
> 
> In a worse case scenario, we would at least have a big time player
> (and getting bigger) we could use to trade for a top notch big man. A
> team doesn't improve without taking risks. I see this as Hagan +
> Macauley for Russell or rights to Carroll for Parish and McHale type
> opportunity, and the team would be unwise to not even pursue if the
> opportunity actually presents itself.
> 
> Archive this and come back in 4 years and if Kobe (assuming no major
> injury)  is not the biggest difference maker in the NBA a la Jordan I
> will eat my computer. This Kobe trade talk is almost surely bunk, but
> if...
> 
> Trond Jacobsen
> 
> > 
> > --- "Berry, Mark  S" <berrym@BATTELLE.ORG> wrote:
> > > A few situations around the NBA bear watching.
> > > First, the Kobe-Shaq battle
> > > in LA. The Lakers won't do anything during the
> > > season, but after this
> > > season, it's sounding more and more like they may at
> > > least discuss the
> > > possibility of trading Kobe Bryant. If the Lakers
> > > don't reach the Finals,
> > > expect the talk to start. Of course, if Kobe goes on
> > > the market, every team
> > > in the NBA will be lining up, but the Celts could
> > > put a pretty nice package
> > > of players and picks on the table, starting with LA
> > > native Paul Pierce. I'd
> > > do Pierce, Toine and all of this year's draft picks
> > > for Kobe. And I'd
> > > include any other bodies the Lakers might want
> > > (UCLA's Moiso? Vitaly to back
> > > up Shaq?). Kobe would give the Celts the superstar
> > > they're lacking at this
> > > point.
> > > 
> > > Vancouver also may be a match. Shareef and Bibby are
> > > on the block and,
> > > again, the Celts have some attractive bargaining
> > > chips. I've been watching
> > > Vancouver a lot lately and I love Bibby. He'll be
> > > even better when he
> > > realizes he's the best player on that team, not
> > > Shareef. Right now he defers
> > > to Shareef too often. Shareef, of course, is a great
> > > player in his own
> > > right.
> > > 
> > > Chicago is looking for a legit, veteran player to
> > > take some pressure off
> > > Brand and make them more competitive (and attractive
> > > to free agents). That's
> > > a team that could absorb Toine's contract now
> > > without any BYC problems, and
> > > they have some young players they're willing to
> > > deal. Jamal Crawford would
> > > be the centerpiece of any deal with Boston, but the
> > > Celts have shown
> > > interest in Ron Artest in the past, and may be
> > > interested in Marcus Fizer.
> > > This would be a rebuilding move for the Celts. Also,
> > > there could be a match
> > > with the Bulls as part of a three-way deal.
> > > 
> > > The Van Horn rumors may resurface if things continue
> > > to go wrong in Jersey.
> > > A Van Horn-Toine deal may be good for both teams and
> > > players. A classic
> > > "change of scenery" kind of thing.
> > > 
> > > Philly still seems willing to discuss Iverson, and
> > > there was a rumor
> > > yesterday at bskball.com (so it must be true!) that
> > > they had offered Iverson
> > > to LA for Kobe. Larry Brown loves Toine, and I could
> > > see a Toine-pick for
> > > Iverson deal happening.
> > > 
> > > Anyway, the point of the post is there might be some
> > > options out there if we
> > > go about this the right way. In other words, don't
> > > start selling off draft
> > > picks in stop-gap moves (Shammond Williams?). Isn't
> > > anyone interested in
> > > seeing what a healthy Chris Herren brings to the
> > > team? Is Shammond Williams
> > > a big upgrade over Herren?
> > > 
> > > I'm the biggest proponent on the list of blowing up
> > > this team, but let's see
> > > where some of these storylines go, and if we can't
> > > land a big fish when we
> > > finally throw our line in the water.
> > > 
> > > Mark
> > > 
> > 
> > 
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