Re: Kenny vs Milt... vs Chauncey vs Forte

["j.hironaka" <j.hironaka@unesco.org>]

At 09:50 23/08/01 -0700, Roy Enrile wrote:
>His old college bud, Chauncey brought the same thing with better handles
>and a three point shot.  For the low salary that Billups has now, and the
>makeup of the current team, I wouldn't mind if we had kept him over Kenny.

Chauncey, and in fact Kenny to some extent, demonstrate that owning a 
undetachable handle and an ability to beat defenders all the way to the 
bucket still isn't nearly enough to make you a winning pointguard.

Personally I always felt Chauncey stood out as an outstandingly proficient 
new age dribbler, especially on the cross over and how much real estate he 
could cover in quick choppy bursts. But Chauncey had obvious leadership 
charisma and intelligence. And he was built solid as a defensive point 
guard in a Payton kind of mold. Plus he was a clutch player in many 
instances, during his brief half season with us. For instance, he was (and 
is) a natural go-to scorer on broken plays and in late shot-clock 
situations, just as any point guard must be.

And yet he really sucked.

I think this was a classic Pitino-era case where all the talent ingredients 
were in abundant evidence, thus obscuring the fact that Chauncey lacked 
innate court sense to be a point guard. It is like a football QB who can 
throw 70 yards bombs during the scouting combine but can't make plays in 
real games, like Joe Montana certainly could (or a Stockton). Imagine if 
Larry Bird or Magic Johnson played quarterback in the NFL? They would 
re-write the record books.

The thing is that Pitino was a big part of that whole Chauncy-to-Moiso 
continuum, because his big hubris as a coach is that he still believes he 
can make a great athlete into a great player. He thought he saw a young 
Gary Payton in the making, and that he felt he had the motivational skills 
and brilliance to coach those intangibles into Chauncey.

In hindsight, it should have been obvious from his college stats that 
Chauncey was a low assist machine and an erratic, low percentage scorer. 
But Pitino thought he could do something about that.

If the now veteran Chauncey had a better jump shot and is now less of a 
dribble hog, he'd fit on our current roster (in fac, anything would fit in 
better than Kenny's crazy contract). But I don't see that as being possible 
anymore. I could be very wrong on this, but I think Pitino made an upgrade 
even in the original trade.

>I still like Kenny's basketball play more than others on this list.  I
>just hate that he's not a team leader win at all costs kind of attitude
>like Sam Cassell or Antoine.  Kenny is not a winner. But he's so dangerous
>on O and can leave you shaking your head at the difficult shots he makes
>at a high percentage.  I remember games where he carried
>the offense against the Lakers embarrassing Kobe and had the team up big
>for a while.  When he was healthy he held his own against Marbury, Payton
>and Kidd offensively.
>
>Maybe after a couple of years the best of the bunch could be Joe Forte?
>I expect after half a year the kid should be able to do what Eric Snow,
>Alvin Williams, or Antonio Daniels does.  But he has so much more
>overconfidence than them when he plays.  He practices against Vince
>Carter, Steve Francis, and Elton Brand in past summers, and says his goals
>this year are starter->RookieGame->Rookie of the year... LOL!.  He makes
>and scores off of assists, not just selfish one on one stuff.  I hope he
>has success at PG in the future, because a team usually follows the point
>guards attitude/personality(The current c's lack of toughness, and love of
>1 on 1 gunning, as opposed to the Knicks or Philly's attitude is a
>reflection on Kenny's leadership I think).  If Forte could get closer to
>Sam Casell/Dennis Johnson ballhandling skills things could get
>interesting.

Great insights once again Roy. Personally I really wonder about Joe Forte, 
but given his driving ambition,  I hope we can see a big leap on his 
learning curve from his disappointing second-fiddle performance at Shaw to 
the opening of training camp in a month or so.

But maybe he's just another "little engine that can't", as Mark Berry 
hints. The numbers back up his concerns about tweener guards. This guy was 
dominant in a major college program just as Sam Vincent and so many others 
since have been dominant.

As fans, if we can just try to maintain any reasonable perspective at all, 
I think we need to be prepared to see all three rookies struggle and 
disappoint us this year, but without writing them off as busts too quickly.

For instance, what if Joe Johnson gives us low double figure scoring and 
Joe Forte and Kedrick are non-entities, seemingly hopeless in several 
facets of the game? Well that's what Shawn Marion and Baron Davis + Dirk 
Nowitzki respectively provided their own teams in their rookie years. But 
nobody's going to refer to the "sophomore slump" trend anymore, or at least 
any time soon. Well granted, the "Eye of the Poodle" phenomenon has yet to 
be unleashed in Philly. ;-)

Even compared to past year, the 01 draft  looks to be the kind  where the 
1-11 picks could fare collectively worse overall as rookies than the 10-35 
picks. But I wouldn't rush to draw quick conclusions from that.

This really is a rambling post.

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