Re: Sanity

["Cecil Wright" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>]

----- Original Message -----
From: Kestas <Kestutis.Kveraga@Dartmouth.EDU>
To: <celtics@igtc.com>
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: Sanity


> At 23:18 3/5/00 -0400, you wrote:
> >You are so full of yourself.  You made points which I challenged.
>
> I'm not full of myself. It's just that when you dismiss anything I say
with
> a "they just matured, what's so hard to understand?", and chastise me for
> not supplying Shaq's family history along with his quote about Jackson, I
> know it's just become a game to you.
>

Dismiss "anything" you say?  You have a problem.  After a period of 5-6
years in the league, players mature.  That is not a dismissal.  Just like
college seniors are much more mature than freshmen.  Most rookies and second
year players always mention the adjustment they have to make playing an 80+
game schedule after arriving in the NBA.  I really don't see what's so hard
to understand about this.  I advised that you should be more explicit when
discussing Shaq's father.  Can't recall requesting his complete family tree.

> >That's
> >all.  I neve said Jackson, or Riley were NOT good coaches.
>
> You just assigned all the credit for the successes of their teams to the
> sudden maturation and talent of  their players.
>

I assigned "ALL" the credit?  Make generalizations much?  That may be your
interpretation since you are trying to win your "debate", however, I merely
pointed out, ONCE AGAIN, the fact that players mature after a few years.
You have a very vivid imagination though.

> >I merely opposed
> >your assertion that a former coach/Celtic would be in a better position
to
> >coach this team other than Pitino.  I made valid points without pulling
> >quotes out of the paper or NBA.com.
>
> Are you implying that providing supporting evidence from one's claims is
> undesirable?
> I guess from your vantage point it may well be.
>

No.  I am implying that I don't need any "evidence" to substantiate how I
feel.  Who is your idol, Perry Mason or Ben Matlock?  You don't need any
evidence in a conversation or dialogue.

> >The fact of the matter is that the
> >Bulls, for the most part, WERE allowed to stay together and mature as a
> >team.  There was some tinkering but the nucleus co-existed.  Jackson had
a
> >lot to do with it as coach
>
> There we go, finally. Q.E.D.
>

Show me where I said anything negative about Jackson or Riley as coaches.

> > and so did their goofball owner who shelled out
> >big bucks in order to maintain the unit.  However, a man you mentioned,
> >Horace Grant, left them and didn't have the most kind things to say about
> >Jackson.  I didn't see those quotes though.
>
> I was not aware of them.
>

I'm not surprised.  That would not be among your mountain of evidence.

> >I thought Darrell Armstrong was their leading scorer?
>
> No, Mercer is.
>

Not really.  Mercer has scored 162 points in the month since the trade.  He
is averaging 13.5 ppg since he's been with Orlando.

> >The Celtics play hard
> >most of the time.  They do NOT play intelligently all of the time though.
> >Same as the old Bulls.  All good teams need some time to mesh, which
seems
> >to be a point that you either don't like or refuse to accept.
>
> I both like it and accept. However, the meshing process would be greatly
> facilitated by not having someone at the helm who trades players early and
> often.
>
> >have big expectations.  But since you have such a haughty opinion of
> >yourself, what do you think my answer to that one would be?
>
> Well, I don't think it was very hard at all  to anticipate the answer, if
> your previous posts in this thread are any indication. But I brought it up
> solely in response to your dig about Doc Rivers, as if his losing today
> invalidates my statements about him in any way.
>

Forget Mason and Matlock.  Perhaps Ben Stone from Law and Order?

> >Oh that's right, you're not continuing this "debate" as you call it,
because
> >I'm grasping at straws, according to you.  There's no chance that you
could
> >be wrong is there?
>
> There's always a chance, especially when you're talking basketball.
>
> >I could merely be treating you like you treated Alex.
> >Must be nice.
>
> How did I treat Alex? He had an issue with my comments, I explained why I
> said what I said several different ways in 3 or 4 posts, yet he kept at it
> -  which got really old after a while. I didn't think he had any business
> scolding me like this since he had done exactly the same thing with
"Pitino
> bashers" around the same time, only somewhat more politely. And my
comments
> were nothing compared to the way he dressed down a list member who had
> challenged him on his knowledge of statistics a while back.  I respect and
> value his contributions to this list, but this was just over the top.
>

Well I guess you told him, huh?  Did you get some kind of juvenile pleasure?
Someone who makes contributions and has been a list member for as long as
Alex should not have to succumb to unsubscribing after engaging in your kind
of "debate" IMHO.  Things are tough enough without you making decisions on
what people should or shouldn't say unless you are the moderator of this
list.  Your comments were "nothing" in your mind, but, and fortunately, not
everyone feels as you do.  You should learn to respect differing feelings
and opinions rather than try to find fault with them at every opportunity.

This will be my last post to you on this subject since, as others have
advised me through personal messages, you just don't seem to get it.

Cecil