Re: Post scoring?

[opi@unesco.org]

    Hi guys, I think Alex is right on here. Again, I'll say that if you
want an "inside-out" offense then you can find 100 coaches that are more
comfortable employing it than Rick Pitino, and we should not judge him
on this basis but rather on his ability to make his own system work in
the NBA.

    I'm not saying that Pitino can't coach an "inside-out" game or
doesn't appreciate the value of big men, just that he doesn't stress it
as much as other coaches have. In many ways I thought Patrick Ewing was
akin to John Elway in the first ten years of his career, a guy who was
both productive AND overrated at the same time. It's impossible to
exaggerate what kind of a singular, game plan altering impact Ewing had
on college basketball compared to other franchise college centers of the
past twenty years: from Sampson to Olajuwon to Duncan. Ewing was a guy
who would not have surprised anyone if he led every NBA game in rebounds
and blocks, much as Elway probably ought to have completed 60% of his
passes and not thrown so many interceptions early in his career. Because
of who they were and where they played, both players undeniably got
over-hyped. Sure it's All Star numbers, but Ewing basically put up Brad
Daugherty stats with okay defense (not one that blew up opposing game
plans). That's not the fault of Pitino's system. Manhattan is a
distracting place and Ewing was out and about at least from what I hear.
But as for Nazr Mohammed, that kid is hardly proof of UK's ability to
groom NBA-ready centers, and at most an advertisement for weight loss
and fitness.

    I'm kind of meandering a bit from Alex' post, which I save in
entirety below. Regarding Vitaly, I agree he has bad hands. I remember a
telecast last year in which Heinsohn said that if he were asked to coach
Vitaly, the first thing he would do is have his eyes checked. He said
catching the ball is very different from being able to shoot straight,
which is something Vitaly can do. If he has a vision problem, a pair of
glasses can do wonders (whether seeing a baseball or a bounce pass).

    Once Vitaly manages to catch a ball, he tends to squeeze the air out
of it. He won't get stripped of the ball on his two step moves around
the basket, with his elbows out and gripping that ball like he does.
Vitaly also has uncommonly precise footwork and balance, as is the
cliché with many kids from soccer nations. So it's a wash....he's "bad
hands, great feet". V's footwork allows him, for the most part, to
create makeable shot opportunities for himself.

    If Pervis is also healthy, than by default Fortson will get his
minutes at power forward and my worries will be over. We need to get him
in there. When you can outrebound a team by 13 boards, obviously it's a
glaring positive difference from season's past. If this happens
regularly, then we will eventually start to win regularly also.

    Regarding Fortson vs Battie in the starting lineup, I know that
Battie's "scarcity value" (he's our only shotblocker and low-post player
taller than 6-10 other than Pervis) and the nature of Pitino's system
makes it seem like a "no brainer" that he should be on the floor
alongside one of our bruisers.

    Personally, I think Pitino's "system" applies directly to the second
unit, where you most clearly can argue for the need of an athletic
shotblocker at the back of the press. That's not a job Fortson or
Potapenko can do well, assuming one of them gets bumped to the bench. I
think Pitino should maximize the athleticism of the second unit, period.
The first unit has a enough sheer rebounding strength (plus two scorers)
to play straight up, half-court basketball on both ends. To use a
baseball analogy, it'll be like following a power pitcher with a
knuckleballer.

    I'm not saying that it isn't valid to repeatedly stress Battie's
importance to a Pitino-style team, compared to a Potapenko or Fortson.
I'm just saying that the coach should not necessarily conclude from this
that Battie must start the game at power forward or center. We'll see.
Maybe a Fortson-Potapenko-Walker lineup won't be able to stop anyone on
defense. In any case, I'm sure we'll see a lot of both Battie and
Fortson playing on the first unit, which is a terrific thing.

Joe

*****

Alex Wang wrote:

> Well, there are certainly successful offenses that don't
> run their offense through a post player; most notably those
> based on the pick and roll, or on a penetrating point
> guard, or multiple screens for a shooter (Philly).
> "Inside-out" is only one way to play basketball. You have
> to tailor your offense to the personnel. Your opinion may
> certainly differ but in my eyes, the Celtics personnel isn't
> best suited for a steady diet of this sort of offense.
>
> Some post players just aren't meant to have an
> offense run through them; you need a post player that
> has good hands and passes well as well as being a scoring
> threat, which is something that all the players you mention
> have (Olajuwon, Sabonis, Mason). Personally, I just don't
> think Vitaly has what it takes to be this sort of player.
>
> I do think that Vitaly has some nice offensive low post
> moves and that he should get the ball a fair share of
> the time. But honestly, I think you'll see him bust out
> a low post move in an attempt to score, rather than
> create something with passing, unless they double team.
> He's just not a wonderful natural passer or ball handler.
> If he proves me wrong, that'll be wonderful. Still, to be
> most effective, I feel like the Celtics are going to have
> to employ a variety of offensive plays, including having
> Kenny penetrate, exploiting individual mismatches with
> Paul and Antoine, using Antoine's ability to create facing
> the basket, and screening for Paul, as well as giving it
> to Vitaly inside.
>
> Alex
>
> > Well, Alex is smart, but he's wrong on this.  It's a
> > mistake to suppose you need an all-star center to run
> > an offense through.  That is the essential part of the
> > center's role as the game is meant to be played.  Even
> > if you center is Acie Earl, you should be moving a
> > halfcourt offense through him.  He shouldn't be
> > passing only on double teams, and he doesn't have to
> > be a dominant scorer.  But he is like the catcher in
> > baseball, and controls a major part of the action.
> > Vitaly is wasted just being used as horsemeat/goon
> > work.  He needs touches more than most players, and he
> > is very unselfish.  Watch how Anthony Mason passes out
> > of the post, or Hakeem Olajuwon, and you will see what
> > I mean.  If only a Sabonis can pass from the center
> > position, then basketball is doomed.