RE: Fellowship of the miserable

["John Lyell" <Jlyell@concentric.net>]

I don't know how you cannot look at all of the moves that have been made and
say he should not be accountable for them ?

If you read my post you would have seen I gave him credit for moving Knight.
Signing Battie, to a long term deal when he has not proven squat, and has
not shown he can play physical at the 4 or 5 (the same problem Knight had
!), I do not call a good move.

As far as "Who care about throw-ins" , I agree on Tabak & Popeye, but as far
as EW, you had better care, as you may be stuck with their contracts for the
duration, like Barros & Ellison. It does not take a capologist to figure
this out.  Don't say who cares about throw-ins, but then blame the cap for
not being able to make moves.

As far as the young for old, their are both pro's & cons of this. The pro
"At least we have a young nucleus" (Something the Clippers have been saying
this for the last 10 years), The con, we do not have any experienced go to
leaders, and cannot draw a veteran free agent to Boston. name me one major
talent that has even considered Boston as a place to play over the last 5
years ?  The only one I can think of is Vin Baker, and possibly Charles
Oakley, who mentioned it.


As far as major FA's you are not going to get something for nothing. True we
have had cap problems, but with the exception of Barros & Ellison, all other
moves i.e McCarty, Knight, Battie, Williams, are all due to Pitino's moves,
so that is not an excuse. You need to be creative in sign and trade deals,
as Portland was with Steve Smith and Pippen.  They had a much better team
than us , but were not afraid to pull the trigger on moving some big ticket
players in an attempt to improve their team.  I still can't believe they got
Pippen for basically nothing.  If we suffer through a poor year this year, I
expect Walker or Pierce to be gone in an attempt to improve chemistry.  You
just can't continue to blame the cap, someone else, or give the old "We'll
get em next year" We have had since the late 80's to rebuild, and just have
done a poor job.  Lewis and Bias hurt, but that is a thing of the past.


















-----Original Message-----
From: owner-celtics@igtc.com [mailto:owner-celtics@igtc.com]On Behalf Of
Alex Wang
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 1999 12:58 AM
To: celtics@igtc.com
Subject: Re: Fellowship of the miserable


This is exactly the type of criticism that I'm talking about. First of
all, you criticize him both when he signs a player and then trades him
away. For instance, you count Travis Knight and Tony Battie as two
mistakes. At most, they are one, and that's not even clear here. His
contract is certainly a reasonable size (average NBA salary, roughly).
This sort of double counting is a way for you to have a lot of
mistakes on your list. The real issue is, what kind of talent does he
currently have on the team after all his moves, and how well does it
all fit together? Counting mistakes like "he signed Massenberg" is
pointless and the exact type of mindless negativity that I am talking
about. Who cares about Tabak or Popeye Jones or Eric Williams? They
were throw-ins for a trade.

Now if you want to please the armchair GMs, you trade your young
talent and first round draft picks for proven veterans that are around
age 34-36. Pitino has not traded young for old with the exception of
Kenny Anderson and almost all the players who you list as mistakes
that are still on the team are very young. Yeah, he hasn't acquired
any "proven" players. Proven players that aren't at the end of their
careers are expensive to acquire; you either have a lot of cap space
or give up a lot of young talent. And this "can't attract free agents"
stuff is unsubstantiated BS. How much cap space has Boston had to
offer free agents recently? Only the exceptions. Of course you don't
attract "premium" free agents with the exceptions. And Cheaney was
pursued by Pat Riley, let's not forget, who I think is a proven talent
evaluator if you judge by his past moves and the team he's constructed.

Alex

> Unless you are talking about players obtained in pre-pitino moves, which
the
> only two remaining I can think of are Barros & Ellison,  I would have to
say
> he has complete control over all the moves that have been made since he
> arrived. The reason he gets paid the big bucks is for his talent
evaluation
> skills, and to teach young players with raw talent, how to become more
> rounded players, and spot talent in the late first or early second rounds
> like a Hornacek, Cuttino Mobley, etc. If they do not want to listen, its
> time to look to move them elsewhere as you will never win a championship
> with selfish players.
>
> If you look at the moves he has made, that have actually made this team
> better, you could probably count them on one hand. Paul Pierce who pretty
> much fell into his lap, Kenny Anderson still questionable , but if
healthy,
> an upgrade over Billups, and Adrian Griffin.
>
> Now count the ones that haven't, which I am probably missing some.
>
> Trading high second round pick for a front office person (Who was taken by
> Miami with this pick Mark Strickland ?)
> Mills
> Massenberg
> Popeye
> The guy with bad knees that never played whose name I can't remember, from
> the Anderson or Massenberg trade.
> Tabak
> McCarty (stupid big contract)
> Billups (Tough draft with not a lot of talent, but could he have traded
for
> a veteran ?)
> Knight (Big contract to unproven player. Did he really think he could play
> the 4 or 5 spot ?) (Good move to jettison him though !)
> Schintzius ????
> Battie (Another big contract for an unproven talent)
> Potapenko (jury still out, based on big men market value)
> Fortson (Still to be shown, Mercer is playing well in Denver)
> Cheaney (only FA who really wanted to play in Boston ?)
> Williams - he wasn't worth the contract before his injury, why would you
> take him back after it, with his big multi year contract ???
>
>
> Not a good track record so far.  I think any of us fools could have done
> just as bad.
>
> I think he is still having a tough time attracting people to Boston in
free
> agency.