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Re: agree and disagree
At 09:17 AM 6/23/03 -0400, you wrote:
Re: John Entwistle
> Money does not buy happiness -
That's arguable.
I'd rather be unhappy and rich then unhappy and poor (joke here), but
having said that, I feel that money buys things. Yes - you can use your
money to do good, and/or buy things, but at the end of the day - an
expensive mirror is still just a mirror. Many people feel that as one gets
money, ones dreams expand to fill - like a pay cheque that grows, but never
seems enough (and no, I am not speaking of my personal attitudes here).
Note: my income allows my family a roof, food, some comforts, and safety.
My skills allow me to provide these things, and to choose where we live and
work. My income allows us a few nice things too. But I still have to watch
out for greed - that desire for new toys that go from dreams to wants to
'needs'.
> seems to me that his band did not get a lot of press/recognition, or
> profit when it toured (or recorded) - certainly compared to The Who -
> got to be a frustration of a personal dream.
Or maybe......he *enjoyed* being on the road, even if it wasn't always a
profitable venture. I don't know that Entwistle & his band(s) *ever* had
a profitable tour. So, obviously he wasn't doing it for any huge fin-
ancial reward. If he was only in it for the money, he would've quit his
solo touring after the first one, in what, 1975?
So I'll change my wording here, as you are correct - and I do think he did
it cause it was fun - probably the most fun one could have.
Lots of teenage males have that dream too - for fun (and profit). When did
he first start touring? Could it have been addictive?
Just a thought, a possibility, not a proposed fact.
My changed wording would be "could have been a frustration of a personal
dream". He did have to cut short at least one tour did he not?
He was earning something else when he ventured out with his solo band:
enjoyment. And pride. And practice of his craft. Fan recognition.
Applause. Autographs. Good food. Drink. Camaraderie. Sounds like a
fun fulfilling life to me. What exactly was he supposed to be running
from?
All true. But maybe he was tired of the young man life style (or maybe
not...), or maybe he wasn't a young man any more...
He could have been running from, lets see, maturity, age,
responsibility,...mid-life crisis?, obscurity...
hell I don't know, maybe he was as happy as a pig in s$%t.
> So, yeah, maybe he got to fish in the Caribbean, but not with a young
> child, or a happy wife,...
That's *your* idea of a happy fishing trip (a metaphor for a happy life,
I guess)
Well, not with the child / wife combination, but I can't speak for anyone
else - just proposing possibilities that's all
but why should it have been Entwistle's? Aren't you imposing
what *you* feel a fulfilling life should entail onto someone else?
Just suggesting possibilities - alternate point of view, that's all.
"Well,
he couldn't have been a happy man because he didn't live his life like
mine." In today's society we call that kind of reasoning incorrect.
Big jump here - hope you land safely, as I don't think anyone needs to
follow my 'way' to be happy - nor should they fit your mould to be 'happy'
either.
In my society, we are all allowed differing opinions without being labelled
as "incorrect".
I think my words here simply say that he didn't have a wife and kids (ok,
he has a grown son)/traditional (not necessary for happiness) relationship,
and maybe that could have been a part of his life that he hadn't achieved
(yet).
Conversely, maybe it meant nothing to him. I didn't know the man, I was
just putting forth possibilities.
> or with the independence that comes with leading a band and making the
> decisions....
But that's not Entwistle, the person. He's the quiet one, remember? He
*chose* to not be the atypical "leader" of his solo bands. He chose that
role. It was more comfortable to him. It wasn't any kind of failure.
Not some unsuccessful bid to try to "lead" a band because of some pseudo-
psychological need to break out of his role in The Who. He liked touring.
He liked being the bass guitarist. That's it.
Or was 'the quiet one' the persona that worked, that covered for....I'm
just putting forth possibilities that's all
> How about aging - I'll bet you he didn't like being grey, developing
> a gut, heart trouble, or all of those other things -
So, all aging people are unhappy? And lost? It's not possible to be
in your late 50's & be content in life? Is that what you're saying?
No, aging people are not unhappy but definition. I would hazard a guess
that most mid-50's are quite content. However, one might be a tad unhappy
if you see your physical body fall apart, or get told your living on
borrowed time.
Conversely, he may have been very content - he did leave with a bang - and
looking forward to a tour - gotta be an up time in his life.
I guess the concept of contentment - and what creates it, would go here...
> and I bet it was getting a lot harder to pick up those young perfect
> body girls for those on night stands on the road - hence the (possible)
> need for professional company (although, money does clear the air of the
> meaning and goals of the parties involved).
OX enjoyed sex. So what. Many humans engage in it for pleasure & forego
all the guilt. Unless you've been made to believe that you *should*
feel guilty about it. I can see how that might look questionable to
people who have to be told how to think. And what to think.
Guilt free and up front is not a negative here.
By the by here, if you're implying that I need to be told how and what to
think, well, certainly not by the likes of you. Try to not meander into the
arena of person slags when the topic is about possibilities.
> How about knowing that the best part of your career and talent are be-
> hind you? Facing 'retirement' age and not wanting to be there.
Sounds like *you're* the depressed one! Not Entwistle! How about knowing
that you were lucky enough in life to *have* a great career? And that
you were lucky enough to *have* extraordinary talent? Isn't it possible
that Entwistle could have gained contentment, pride, & happiness with
*that* type of a mindset?
Again, I'm quite happy - and very successful in my personal life
(professional too), I'm just putting forth an opinion - you must be a good
mind reader - and oh so smart - to diagnose me as depressed from these
words (sorry, a personal attack here - sarcasm etc. I apologize)
Yep, he certainly had to have gained some satisfaction - and pride, as well
- add into it the higher profile his role was taking on. Again, just
putting forth an idea for discussion, that's all.
Mid 50's, heart problems, I feel safe in saying that he knew he wasn't
facing another 30 years of career growth though.
I just don't see Entwistle as someone who's life revolved around the neg-
ative. He didn't seem lost to me. He didn't seem unfulfilled or incom-
plete. Unless of course you've been told that people aren't complete un-
less they have a certain something in their lives. If you've been told
*that,* & you believe it, then I could see how you would think he wasn't a
happy person even though all the evidence leans toward the notion that he
*was* a happy person & *did* enjoy life.
See above - add to it - only your opinion counts?
> His life seems fun-filled to you (and many more...), but possibly not
> to him.
Possibly, not to *you,* you mean. In Entwistle's case, since he didn't
give hardly any self-exploring interviews, all we have to go on is how he
lived his life & his overall demeanor. I see him as someone who was hard-
working & had a wonderful sense of humor; someone who enjoyed playing bass
guitar for an audience; someone who enjoyed his fame & respected his fans;
someone who enjoyed fishing, laughing, drinking with friends, meeting his
fans, playing with his mates, & generally making the most out his time
here on this planet. We should all be so unfulfilled.
All of this is true. Maybe his best friend could add (not that he would
publicly) more. Maybe not.
Yep, he very well could have been totally fulfilled with life. I guess we
minor little peons have no right to a differing opinion than the one that
revolves around the deification of a member of The Who.
> It is always easier to dream of being in someone else's shoes....
True. About as easy as imposing one's own life-views onto other people.
And then *judging* those people when their actions & way of life don't
conform to your own. Very easy indeed.
Seems to me that you do a better job of imposing your views and judging
other people then most everyone else here on the list.
Read your own challenges - listen to your own words - try to be a tad more
accepting of opinions that vary from yours - tunnel vision is dangerous to
the mind.
Try to rephrase your opinions without attacking others - it'd make for a
much more interesting debate.
Steve
- SCHRADE in Akron