Re: Under -a rock a bit long

[Keithjmoon70@xxxxxxx]

In a message dated 11/6/02 10:36:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
sschrade@ascpl.lib.oh.us writes:

> You seem to be insinuating that your experience with the Toronto CD
> was some sort of "divine intervention," reaffirming your religious be-
> liefs because:
> 
> A. You purchased the CD on a whim, only because it was the last show 
> on the tour.  And....
> 
> B. Lo &behold, Pete makes a reference to spiritual searching which
> conforms to your own established beliefs.
> 

Scott,

This was not a definite conclusion.  It just came at a pretty convenient 
time. I enjoyed it and shared it. Everything in my life is the result of 
divine intervention.  I may however be foolish enough to reject it and not 
enjoy it's benefit which is the case too much of the time, but for me not 
*all* of the time. Kind of like refusing to breathe because I can't see the 
air.

What Pete said was very refreshing, because I know it is true.

>>Your conclusion is, because everything that happens in life happens
for a purpose, you have experienced another amazing "divine intervent-
ion," thereby confirming what you've believed all along.

Yes.

>>What you're not realizing is that you've bought dozens of *other* Who
bootlegs or legit releases where Pete says *nothing* spiritual, nothing
about searching for God, nothing about experiencing "lows" to get to 
the "highs," etc.

Yes.

>>You're forgetting about all the times Pete has cursed, insulted, yelled,
& been just generally nasty from the stage. 

No.

>>You're forgetting about all the sin, debauchery, & general lowliness
Pete has engaged in throughout his life (and, some may argue, contin-
ues to engage in).

No.  I understand the reason why.


>>You want very badly to reconcile this love you have for The Who with the
love you have for God. You clutch onto every scrap of evidence you can
find & discard the evidence which is contrary to your hopes & beliefs.

You are getting very warm here.  The first part at least.  Trouble is, we are 
more complicated than we realize.  I am not looking for evidence to support 
my belief. I am seeing that Pete has seen the same things in part and is bold 
enough to say it out loud.  I appreciate his honesty.  By the way, I am no 
fan of Christian rock.  That is a joke.  This is a personal matter of Pete 
and what he has seen.

>>This is exactly the reason why psychics & the like are popular & still
continue to thrive into the 21st century. For all the incorrect infor-
mation they spout about someone, they usually get one or two things cor-
rect.

No.  I see your point with the psychics, but this is something far bigger 
than that.  I am not looking for an affirmation.  I am thoroughly confident 
in what I know and in what I have seen.  I am not closed to new information 
or thoughts and ideas, which you may find hard to believe, but I have seen 
what it is that God wants and I cannot deny that I have seen it. The 
experiences of my life particularly in the past twenty years have proven over 
and over ond over and over that what I know is not fantasy.  When I was a 
young man, maybe I would just harden up and say "I am right!" because I 
learned the deepest truths in the history of mankind, but now that these 
truths have been lived out in my experience, I can relax and enjoy and not 
feel the need to beat others with what I "know" for the purpose of winning 
the argument like so many religious Christians do. 

>>And what do you think happens? People remember the "hits" & forget 
about the "misses." Why? Because they want to. They want to believe.

I don't want to believe.  I just do.  I don't have to try to do this. I 
cannot not believe.  It is impossible for me now. Just like it is impossible 
for you to say that you were not at the Mansfield show.  Someone was 
installed into my being that will not leave me alone.

When I eat a chicken, I eat the meat. I eat the eggs.  I could eat the 
feathers the bones and the chicken crap.  They are there for sure.  But I do 
not have to eat it.  I am not denying the negative things in Pete's life any 
more that I deny the negative things in my life. I just choose the positive 
things.  I also know where the negative things come from.  I am not naive 
about this.

>>Science teaches us about probabilities & helps puts these seemingly di-
vine, other-worldly occurrences into perspective. It shows us that the
importance many humans place on coincidence is unjustified. It leads
to clearer, unmuddled thinking. Things do happen for no reason. That's
not pessimism; that's fact. Embrace the knowledge. Free yourself.


I appreciate science.  I am not a rock head, really.  Science is very 
valuable.  But there is a thing called Faith that substantiates the unseen 
things.  This comes directly from the God that created all of the things that 
science is investigating.  As I mentioned earlier, radio and television are 
marvels made by man.  Who could believe such a thing just 200 years ago?  A 
song traveling through the air and then being played in a box in a remote 
place? Computers still boggle my mind. Compare this with the human brain.  
The brain is a part of our body, the most superficial part of our being.  
Deeper is the soul. Still deeper is our spirit.  This is something so 
important that I cannot stress it enough.  How can science reconcile the 
human spirit?  This is the part in us the God made to receive and contact 
Him.  It is there!  I use it all the time.  When I do not use it I get into 
trouble.  I believe Pete has used his.  Our mind, however sharp, cannot grasp 
the unseen things.  It can only study facts in the material world.  I will 
not go much further here because this is way too long already.  But I could.


>>The "sitting stool" analogy is very apt in this case. It says: The 
sitting stool that is religion/spirituality stands on one leg - faith.

The sitting stool that is science stands on three - faith, observation,
& experiment

Hey that is a great analogy.  I have not heard that one.  It makes sense.  
The reason that I would choose the wobbly one is that I have Someone holding 
me.  I am not by myself.  The one leg assures that I will not remain self 
sufficient and just remain a one dimensional man with some facts that I can 
prove.

The bible is not a science textbook.  It was never intended to be.  But in it 
are no scientific errors.  Science discovered that the earth had been covered 
by water just in the last two centuries.  The bible recorded this long ago.  
I appreciate Science for backing this up.  I also appreciate the many 
benefits science has brought our society.  If there is a discrepancy between 
God's revelation and science, science is wrong.  We humans have finite minds 
and limited facts to work with.  God know the whole story. In such a case, 
either science is wrong or the bible is wrongly interpreted.  The earth is 
billions of years old by the way. The creationists missed what happened 
between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

When I use my spirit, my mind becomes very clear. The more I use it, the more 
clear it gets.  I used to know this "fact" as a young man.  Now it is my 
experience.

Jon in Mi.