the Ides of September, a limp Wille & a Milksop

["Mark R. Leaman" <mleaman@sccoast.net>]

>Nobody seems to be any harder on Pete Townshend than Pete, himself.

Keets:

This is absolutely true.

> And nobody wants to be loved any more than he does.

I don't know about that. I think this is one common element in most talented
artists. Most had strange/tortured childhoods and many feel isolated even
when adored (they don't believe it or think it's fleeting). Like a divorcee
with a bad self-image...oh, wait, that still describes Pete doesn't it?

>Page and plant will not tour with john Paul Jones b/c then they will be
>billed as ZEP, that is why they do things as Page and plant...

Pilam:

Very well, then why did they perform 99% old Zep songs then (even on the
second tour, when they had an entire album of new material)? Jones reported
he wasn't even told about the tour beforehand. I found it a bit distasteful,
but a lot of that had to do with Plant's declaration that Zeppelin wouldn't
get back together without Bonzo just months after The Who did that sort of
thing with Kenny Jones. It was sort of like: "We're too good to do that,"
when in fact they aren't in the same league as The Who. Owe a lot to The
Who. Should be kissing Pete's ring or feet or the ground he walks on or
something.

>Rock Band of the Millennium?

Keets:

They need only one category: Greatest Rock band to ever walk the face of the
Earth.

>Guitarist Who Taught Hendrix to Play?

But I really like this one too.

>        Seriously, Mark- You think that Aftermath,  Out of Our Heads, Some
>Girls, and all the other efforts they've made outside of the 5 year glory
>period were "Nothing special?"

Shawn:

I know I kid a lot (a LOT) but I am serious in this and have to answer you:
Yes. I think there were songs on each which were great, but basically they
were just doing Chuck Berry, R&B & Blues remakes on the earlier albums. BTB
showed the first consistent signs of original and innovative (a term I have
a bit of trouble using with The Stones in any case) writing. And while I
love Blues, Chuck, and R&B the originals are better than the Stones'
versions. If you don't have the Berry, Stax/Volts, Beg Scream & Shout, Muddy
Waters, Atlantic R&B boxed sets, then you my friend are in for a lot of
treats. You will LOVE this stuff, if you're a Stones fan.
After Goat's Head didn't hit commercially they did a "fall-back" to the
Sticky Fingers-type sound and have been pretty much staying right there
since. Some Girls...I saw them on that tour...what did they do on that album
which they hadn't done before? Not counting the Disco song; I'll let them
slide on that one because otherwise I'd have to call The Kinks on (Wish I
Could Fly Like) Superman and I'd rather not. For instance, Lies and When The
Whip Comes Down are almost the same song. Far Away Eyes can't touch
something like Dear Doctor or Factory Girl.
Classic albums: BTB, Beggar's, Ya-Ya's, SF, and Exile. The Who beat them by
one unless you count doubles as two: MG, SO, Tommy, LAL, WN, Quad. Let It
Bleed almost makes the list, though, so it's a close call.
And what I mean by "Classic" albums is: the ones essential to anyone who
wants to have a definitive Rock music collection. IMHO, of course.
OK, IM not-Humble O. I'm sure there are Who fans on this list who will
disagree with perhaps MG and want to include By Numbers or WAY, but I
wouldn't.

> The Who made more classic albums than the Stones?

More than The Beatles, too. A Hard Day's Night, Revolver, SPLHCB, Abbey
Road. As you can see by this list and the others I've posted, this covers
each of their different musical periods. Rubber Soul could be substituted
for Revolver and For Sale exchanged for Hard Day's Night if they're more
your preference, but you can see what I mean I think.

> I'm not here to rag on the Who.

"Friends, Romans, List Members..."

>don't see why you need to shoot down Keef and his boys in order to make
your
>point about how great the Who are.

I don't. I didn't.

>special, I disagree. I'm not a moron; I get it that they're not
>earth-shattering albums, but they do have at least a few excellent toons a

Well, that IS what I said, isn't it? As for the other material, another
factor is (and you'll probably disagree) I think other British bands did
Blues and R&B better than The Stones. Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac leaps to
mind. I'm sorry, but I think they kick The Stones' ass in the Blues
department. Have you heard their BBC album? You should! I find Green better
than Clapton, for that matter. He plays with more feeling. It was a REAL
shame when he left and C. McVie/Nicks/Buckingham turned the band into a
slick Pop group as famous for what they wore as their music.

>Surely, as a fan of TED, you should subscribe to that belief.

Actually, no...I completely supported Townshend's idea of ending the band
before they began to go downhill. Nothing's more embarrassing than a bunch
of old guys doing the same old songs over and over and sounding pathetic.
Peter Noone and Frankie Avalon played in MB this summer...see what I mean?
Ringo comes through from time to time...
So far, The Who have managed to avoid it (although Who's Last is pretty much
what I mean). But I fear for the future, which is why I am so strong about
the new album being great rather than just good. I feel like I'm tip-toeing
through a graveyard as this tour progresses. Walking a tightrope.

>PS As far as Sknyrd goes, you gotta be kidding around.

No, I'm not. Really, seriously, honestly, I didn't inhale I swear!
I've never been much for Southern Rock despite living in the South (or maybe
because of), but those guys always struck me as the epitome of why I don't
like it. You should know that at the time every band in every bar was trying
to be the Allman Brothers and every 8-Track in every car was pumping out
Brothers And Sisters and every party had that on the playlist too. LS was
just one too many mornings, speaking in the manner of Bob Dylan. Wait,
better yet for a Who list: I'd had enough. Too much of anything. Grinder's
Switch, Marshall Tucker, Goose Creek Symphony, Atlanta Rhythm Section,
Blackfoot, Head East, Ozark Mountain Daredevils, etc. etc. They were all as
good as LS, but didn't stay around as long. Wet Willie was better for two
albums, but sadly Willie went limp after that.
And part of it might have been being surrounded by Southern boys who
couldn't/wouldn't understand The Who but LOVED LS. Ye-HAH! It's the same
with Jimmy Buffett; I loathe his music but he's huge around here. Some find
him clever and a genius or whatever, I guess. I think he's a milksop. I want
to kick his father's ass for not using a condom. Let that be a lesson to all
of you sexually active young people out there...the world doesn't need
another Jimmy Buffett, OK? Do me a favor.

>toon after toon in a short period of time. I've heard them all WAY TOO MUCH
>as well, but I've heard Who's Next equally WAY TOO MUCH. Haven't you?

Yes, I have. Remember, I'm the one who never wants to hear BBE, Pinball, and
Baba live again. My "wish list" includes opening with I'm Free...how great
would that be, instead of ICE?

>Lynyrd concept is monumental. Again, I dig the Allman Bros. a lot; why is
>that a point why Skynyrd sucks?

I guess I put a higher level of importance on innovation and influence than
most. I don't see that LS did anything that hadn't been done before, and
better. If Free Bird isn't a clone of an Allman Brothers song, then I don't
know what is! And who did they influence, 38 Special? Oh, THANKS A TON guys!

> You guys really believe they're on a par with Loverboy?!?!

Do you really want me to answer that?

> Loverboy was one of the worst bands in recorded history (along
>with REO and Styx).

We certainly agree on this! But don't forget Journey and Kansas (and Toto).
Night Ranger...I could go on for hours, but I'd only get myself in deeper
trouble with other list members. Then again, if we all agreed on everything
there would be no discussion, correct? I'm not mad at you or Caroline or the
Buffett fan who's going to jump me next. You all have a right to listen to
and enjoy what you like. Go for it! Tell me XTC, Widespread Panic, and Big
Country suck if you like. I won't get angry, just disagree with you.


"Nothing can be furthur than the truth."
       George W Bush, boy genius, Presidential candidate 2000


        Cheers                 ML