long live rock & down with flaming!

[FIORE@napoli.infn.itSun Dec 7 13:22:25 PST 1997]

I've been subscribed to the list for about 2 years now and have
really loved it up until the last couple of weeks (and a couple of
other episodes months back).  I almost came to the point of
unsubscrbing, but am sticken it out for a little while longer. So
it's now to the point that I can't stand it any longer and must
put my feelings forth.

I joined for WHO material...WHO info, WHO humor, to see other
peoples' opinions, likes, dislikes, even dissention among the ranks.  
But what I didn't join for was to see other people publically 
ridiculed, flame wars and your basic "I hit your last" 4th grade 
level maturity.

I've read all the posts concerning the flaming / censorship etc. and 
everyone seems to have his/her indivdual points (opinions) which
make sense (most of the time).  Yet most of the time these are all 
only opinions....

I also have many strong opinions on this but would like to try
(as much as possible) to base my principal arguement on FACTS:


FACT 1:  People are quiting the list.

FACT 2:  Many people are angry, or upset.  

   At least it seems more people are unhappy about the way things 
   are going as opposed to more people being happy about things.

FACT 3:  This is not the friendly list that it was 2 years ago.

  Yes there have always been disputes, but they were never cruel,
  mean and just plain senseless they way they have been lately.

FACT 4: We are driving (or scaring) away any "potential" new/younger 
WHO fans.

If I had just joined the list in the last couple of weeks I would
have quit after seeing a day or 2 of the unbelieveable immature
squables.  I wouldn't have realized that the list actually
contained great information, opinions and arguements of noteable
value.  The new/younger fans deserve more than this.  They don't
have the contact we had with the WHO when we were growing up.  This
is one of the only good sources of the WHO and we are polluting it
for them and for ourselves. (and at the same time we are setting 
a horrible example).

This is a true shame.  We want to encourage people to know and
love the WHO, instead we putting forth a different message.

FACT 5: (maybe a bit of opinion).  We are intimidating the more
timid members from participating in debates or just posting
themselves.  People won't write for fear of being flamed.

OK..I can't prove this one but picture yourself a 15 year old, not 
knowing too much about the WHO.  You see all these "older" guys who know
"so" much about the WHO.  I might feel a little intimidated with only
this to deal with, but then to see someone getting flamed, made fun of
etc. for only aksing a question would probably keep me from posting.

FACT 6:  Personal flames have no business what-so-ever on the WHO
list.  Humor ok...disagreement yes,  but not cruelty and senseless
bashing.


Come on people!! This is not a question of liberty or censorship, but
a question of being just plain civil with your fellow human being along
with a good dose of common sense and simple courtesy.
Once you throw these out the window you've already lost everything.(IMO)
Sometimes, other things, sorry to say, must come second behind these. 
When you gain this "free speech" at the price of hurting other people,
what have you really gained? 

And where do we draw the line?  If this isn't stopped where will
it end?  It may seem I'm exagerating but I've seen some pretty
vicous things said to other people on the list.  What next?
Racial slurs.  In fact maybe someone will flame me for this post
by calling me a WOP.  I really don't put it past some of these people.

I must say that I belong to other mailing lists and have never
seen such immature, disgusting behavior.  

Can't we do something to "curb" these happening so frequentley??

What can we do to "save" our list???


*** Some of my observations (opinions) *********

1) what i still don't understand is why these "flames" MUST be 
posted to the list publically.  Why can't the "flamers" just post 
privatley??  Please, please someone show me the reason for this..
I really need to understand this one. 

2)  Someone mentioned, along time ago, if Astely, or even Pete T. 
could/would ever join the list.
HA!!! they would quit after one day of seeing the (shit) petty brawls and
complete juvenile attitute on this list.  I'm sure they would also
leave with a very high opinion of us WHO fans.

3) Yes...there is a delete button. WOW, i never thought of that. But
I feel like first I must put on my waste high waders and then wade
through a pile of shit just to get to some of the "real" posts. 
I get these posts at work.
I work around alot of other people and don't have much time to do
the wading.  How am i supposed to know before I take the time to
open up the file and then read it that it is a piece of shit flame 
message.  It takes time..and i don't have that time.  I'm sure alot 
of people are in the same boat as me here.

If these flamers really must post publically can't they just add
a .flm extension or something.  In this way I won't waste any more
time, but only hit the delete button right away.  This is a ridiculous
solution but then everyone will be happy (and the flamers can keep
their consitutional non-censoring rights at the same time.. a very
important thing!)


4) And..if everyone likes the humour so much, should I start
forwarding my net-joke of the day that I recieve from my friends?
I realize it has nothing to do with the WHO, but at least I'll
be keeping in with our constitional rights of saying (or sending)
anything I damn well please.  

Hope I didnd't offend anyone, but it's come to the point where there's
so much bullshit going on that I'm fed up and had to give my 2 cents.

I better end here.  For someone with no time, I've already said
too much, but at least feel much better.  

long live rock and down with flaming!

david