Re: My Generation/Who vs Zep/Pagey/Brainwashed

[mleaman@sccoast.net (Mark Leaman)]

>Mark, I was joking.  I know you're just as credible as me.  However, you 
>have this funny way of stating your opinions as facts.  You as "standing 
>by your knowledge" is trying to make a fact when it's really an opinion.  

Ian:

Knowledge is not an opinion, it is a culmination of facts.
My opinion doesn't enter into it. MG broke the chokehold Berry/Blues had on
RnR, as I stated. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. It's easy to see by
comparing the music before and after MG.

>Mark, if you can pinpoint the first jazz song you're better than any 
>music historian alive. Do you confuse Jelly Roll Morton's ragtime with 
>jazz?? Let me explain, the "breakthrough" of Smith's song was slight, it was 
>Armstrong's cornet.  The song is built on 12 bar blues but inherits a ragtime 
>feel.  My point was that this song was so strongly built on the blues, 
>it would be impossible on how blues borrowed from jazz as you claimed to 
>Scotty.  

I may not be able to pinpoint the exact song that was the first Jazz, just
like I couldn't with Blues, but I do know that Jazz was around in at least
the late 1800s, whereas by your own admission Blues was the early 1900s.
Your claim is that Smith's song was Blues borrowing from Jazz. Is it not
just as likely the other way around? Or, better yet from my standpoint, Jazz
developing into Blues?

>But you said that jazz influenced the blues moreso than the other way 
>around, in fact you asked me to provide more research for this fact.  
>It's here.  I can provide it in it's total context if you wish.  

That's quite all right. I don't want to tax the patience of the Digest
members to the point of quoting entire sections of books. Dueling Resources.
What I said was that Jazz was around first, and Blues IN THEIR PRESENT FORM,
and that means changed from the Spirituals and Folk that came before them,
arose out of that. Blues came into their popularity via Jazz bands, too.
Robert Johnson etc. were virtually unknown in their time.

>If I did agree, then you're twisting my words.  Of course the text 
>deleted which I state that PT used the talking bout.... line for the 
>entire MG blues song is simply ignored.  Forget the pre-demo, you never 
>acknowledged that the DEMO was in a blues form.  Townshend was clearly 
>quoted as "DEMO", when he mentioned the soucre of influence.  

Well, I hate to keep going over the same thing again, time after time. We
had already gotten past that (I thought). I still say that "Talkin'..." is a
lot closer to Blues than "Talkin' `bout my generation," and that it makes a
difference. Did you want me to repeat it?
Oh Townshend was quoted, eh? This is the same Townshend who didn't know
there were two different vocal versions of Eyesight To The Blind, right? The
same Townshend that is always so consistent with his statements and views?
Ian...

Just so you can rest easy about it, I just dug out my demo of MG (from Max
R&B) and listened to it. It does not sound like Blues, although it does have
a looseness not found in the Who version. Overall, it sounds a lot like the
Who version. I'm sure you know that Pete did TWO demos of the song...and
this is the second. I didn't need to tell you that, right? So what you're
talking about is the unheard (and unreleased) demo...the "talking Blues"
version of MG which Pete wasn't happy with (apparently) and I spoke of
earlier. I can't say anything about it, not having heard it, except what it
was described as: talking Blues. But this form did not survive, unless
(perhaps) as the `75 live number known as My Generation Blues.
Got it?
Speaking of ignoring...where's that Blues song that predicts MG?



                   Cheers                   ML

"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."  L. Long