Re: My Generation/Who vs Zep/Pagey/Brainwashed

[Ian Derby <iderby19@us.net>]

> Ian, Ian, Ian. It's as if your strongest argument is that I am not a
> professional guitarist. As if so many years of studying the music mean
> nothing. I gave you facts, and challenged you to find a pre-Generation Blues
> song that sounds even vaguely like MG. Instead, you harp on the fact that I
> didn't study music theory in College and am not a guitarist. Have I ever
> claimed that? No. I stand on my knowledge, not my skill or what I learned in
> school. You're not one of those people who believe one can only learn in a
> structured environment, are you? Listening to regurgitated knowledge not
> from the source, but from someone who in turn learned it in a structured
> environment...there is such a thing as real life, you know.
> As for your quote, I said: "Now I'm being told that my research material is
> wrong! Why do I tend to doubt that?" to which you replied: "You're Just
> Brainwashed." Now, since I was talking about a book...

Mark, I was joking.  I know you're just as credible as me.  However, you 
have this funny way of stating your opinions as facts.  You as "standing 
by your knowledge" is trying to make a fact when it's really an opinion.  
Knowledge like music history is never regurgitated.  Just like with US or 
World history, matters are revised constantly in music.  


You don't write it, that's the problem.  You claim MG broke off the blues 
form, untrue.  

> 
> >I think I've done plenty, but in this case it only needs to be heard.  When 
> >Bessie Smith's "St. Louis Blues" (with Louis Armstrong) is 
> >considered a breakthrough song for jazz it's pretty much an open and shut
> case. 
> 
> Well, now I'm speechless. You think that was "the first" Jazz song? You've
> got to be kidding! Or do you mean "breakthrough" as in commercial radio
> play? That it might have been. But Hell, Jazz was around before that.

Mark, if you can pinpoint the first jazz song you're better than any 
music historian alive. Do you confuse Jelly Roll Morton's ragtime with 
jazz?? Let me explain, the "breakthrough" of Smith's song was slight, it was 
Armstrong's cornet.  The song is built on 12 bar blues but inherits a ragtime 
feel.  My point was that this song was so strongly built on the blues, 
it would be impossible on how blues borrowed from jazz as you claimed to 
Scotty.  
 


> 
> >For quick reference let's turn to the "Smithsonian Collection of 
> >Classic Jazz" guide.  On page 10 we find the quote :  "Of all the
> Afro-American 
> >idioms in the background of jazz, by far the most important and 
> >influential is the blues".  Now, you tell me who's brainwashing who?
> 
> I haven't read that, and am not tempted at this time to take an isolated
> sentence, quoted perhaps out of context, as proof. What it means to me, as
> you give it, is that Blues influenced Jazz. Well, of course it did. But that
> certainly doesn't mean it's the source.

But you said that jazz influenced the blues moreso than the other way 
around, in fact you asked me to provide more research for this fact.  
It's here.  I can provide it in it's total context if you wish.  


> Ian, I never said it wasn't from the Blues. I was even the one the brought
> up the first, pre-demo version of MG being a "talkin' Blues" song. I said
> the song as recorded by the band was different in structure. Now you're
> twisting my words to argue against them. But it seems that you agree that it
> was different in structure after all (whew! It took all of that to get to
> this?!?).
> 

If I did agree, then you're twisting my words.  Of course the text 
deleted which I state that PT used the talking bout.... line for the 
entire MG blues song is simply ignored.  Forget the pre-demo, you never 
acknowledged that the DEMO was in a blues form.  Townshend was clearly 
quoted as "DEMO", when he mentioned the soucre of influence.