Bjorn's demise??

["Kevin O'Neal" <kevinandt@surfglobal.net>]

>Subject: RE: Bjorn just doesn't care, but I do.
>From: Bjorn Ciggaar <ciggaar@warande.net>
>
>>Why are you here again?
>
>To talk about the fucking WHOOOO!!! Not Jeff House!

Well, that's why I'm (and most of us) are here too.
But the reality is that every now and then we have to take care of some
house cleaning.
It's the same thing as when we take turns in welcoming a first time poster.
That's house work.  We all kind of take turns even though it's never spoken.
You would know this if you consistently participated here.
But face it, you haven't.

>You can call it that. But do you treat them as family?

I try and treat all on this list the same as I would any person that I meet
in person.... with respect, some humor, an out reached hand, interest, and a
deep loyalty until crossed.  What you read, is what you get.  I'm no
different in person than I am here.
The problem around here is this "I don't give a fuck what you think of me"
and "Don't care about me" attitude.
Why behave differently here than you would, and have, in person?

>you can do WHATEVER you want,

Thanks for your permission.

>but when it comes to your "family"
>business (like this whole discussion about uncle Jeff), don't discuss it on
>this list (I really don't wanna read it).

Who are you again to be making demands to *this* list?
When did you become a consistent participant?
Seems to me as well that you were the very *first* to come to his defense.
Now this?

>I'm thinking about making a filter deleting all e-mails containing "Jeff"
>and "IGTC".

I'd prefer not to talk to people who don't care about those they are talking
to.
Remind me of this discussion the next time you want to stay at my house,
drink my beer, sleep in my guest room, bring a friend I've never met, and
get a ride to the airport.
If you're sensing a bit of anger out of me, it's because you're making me
feel used and manipulated.
Maybe that's infact what you did.
Only you know the answer to that.

>You know what, I guess I should leave this list too, and just leave all of
you discuss me behind my
>back while I am doing more important things (like graduating and getting my
>work done here).

If you can't handle both, then yes, you should leave.
And I'm here discussing you now, not after you've left.
Another example of respect.

>So you know I can take some. :-)

Is that something you're proud of?
Maybe you should try caring just a bit.  Giving back.
Is it that you've just been bashed on so much you've lost the ability to
trust people?
That's sad.

>>To me Bjorn, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the
problem.
>
>I did not join this list because of therapeutic reasons.

Nor did I.  Your insinuation is resented.
What I was saying is that if you can't care just enough about the people on
this list that *you* have *chosen* to talk to and share your mutual love of
"the fucking WHOOOO!!" , and treat them with respect, than you are part of
the problem that is currently frustrating you and making this list difficult
at the moment.
Don't you see this very simple concept?

>I'm not angry at several people. I'm just sad that things are going this
>way on IGTC.

You're not alone there.  Read above on how to be part of the solution.

>I just wanted to point out that IGTC isn't a big part of my life here. For
>some it seems that way, because of all the postings I've been reading. And
>I guess that goes for *many* mailing lists. People take it much too
>personal. It's just a message board from crying out loud...

>Oh man, this is just too "Lifehouse" (or "Matrix") for me... Some people
>just seem to be lost in the grid, and need to jump back into the real
world...

I don't think most are confused as to what this is.  You, however, seem to
be under the impression that the source of the words on the page is some
sort of inanimate object, and not people with thoughts and feelings.
You can call this "the grid" as if it's some imaginary play ground for you
to go stomping in and kicking sand around, but it actually *is* the real
world.  I'm real.  I'm sitting here at home in Vermont, in my office writing
to you.  The same office you were in last Spring.  It seems pretty real to
me.   Deal with it.

The irony is so thick here I just about can't stand it.
You, of all people....
You, who's friendship with the former lister who you no longer want to
discuss flourished from this list.
You, who currently is in love with a girl indirectly through this list, and
as a result are finishing school and moving to the US.
This list, not O&S, not altmusic, not petetownshend, not glow girls, but
*this* list has changed your life in such immense ways.
Now, however, you don't care, and don't want anyone to care.

You are afraid.
You shouldn't be.

I'm stopping now.
I've sent you a personal E-mail inviting you to discuss my thoughts off
list.
I hope you take me up on my invitation.
Contrary to how this looks, I *do* desperately want to get back to The Who.
But, I want to discuss The Who with people who care, and in a safe (or at
least as safe as possible) environment.
I hope you don't simply dismiss what I'm saying.

If you don't want to talk to me, try talking to Jon in Mi.
He seems to get the whole picture.
It's not just Rock.  It's not just being a BIG who fan.  It's not a
competition.
It's about people.  It's about the message.
Until a person gets that, I don't care how many shows they've been to,
they're not a fan.

Kevin  W. O'Neal
(you know where I live)