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Re: The "Who is God?" Tirade



Mark, Re:

> >But when defending yorself, you should be fair enough not also to attack the
> >majority of Christians who don't want to bother you with their beliefs at
> >all.
> 
> Actually, I'm not attacking any specific Xtians, just the stated faith and
> beliefs.

Since Christians identify with their faith and beliefs, you are also attacking
them personally.  Or how would you feel if someone in one of your favourite
medium (say, Howard Stern) attacked and belittled The Who over and over again?

> Well, there you point out another flaw. It seems that the Xtian faith can't
> reconcile their beliefs and so have split into an endless number of sects.
> Not good. They should set a better example.

Most Christians are organized in denominations, not in sects.  And the
differences between the denominations are marginal compared with what they have
in common.

> But the Pope is supposed to be God's rep on Earth...

Correct.

> the most Holy of all men...

Nonsense.

> Well, aren't we supposed to LEARN from history?  Does a leopard change its
> spots?

Answer to first question:  Of course.  To second:  No, because it remains one
and the same leopard.  But maybe its descendants will have different spots?  Or
none a all?  (See, evolution again.)  So why do you still judge Christianity
from history whereas you judge Germans from the impressions you get in 1996?
This lacks consistence and seems to be unfair...

> If Xtianity teaches their members that they are the only ones going to
> "heaven" and are therefore spiritually superior to everyone else,

Christian belief doesn't teach this at all.

> Every "sin" on the books is contrary to human nature.

Huh?  So stealing and killing each other are natural?  Come on, Mark, get some
good books about animal and human psychology and learn the contrary.

> Yeah, how long has it been since there was a new Saint?

Every few years new Blessed or Saints are canonized, and Blessed are `upgraded'
to Saints.  Most of them died only recently (20 - 100 years ago).

> If they weren't hampered by their faith, they would have saved millions.

Agitation.  Would YOU have done better?

> And who holds themself in a position to determine who is truly innocent and
> who is guilty? No, it doesn't wash. Either murder is murder, no matter who
> you kill, or it's not.

Judges (and - in certain countries - juries) have been employed by society to
decide who is guilty and who is not.  Of course, their decision might be
mistaken, but it is a decision in the name of the whole society.  So death
penalty isn't murder, it is society's most severe and ultimate method to show
that certain crimes are directed against society as a whole and shouldn't be
copied anymore.  IMHO, it should only be applied to crimes against humanity if
the accused not only confesses his/her crimes but also is proud of them.

But again, this is a completely secular thing and has nothing to do with
religion.

> >Let's see.  First of all, what's the meaning of the word?  A sin is an act
> >that hurts your own or someone else's dignity.  
> 
> Now I KNOW that definition isn't in the Bible.

The Bible doesn't define `sin' at all, it only gives examples.  But we want to
understand what ethics and religion are all about, don't we?

> You're saying that one of the Ten Commandments from the hand of God himself
> "has not much to do with religion..."

Yep.  The first three commandments are about religion and how to handle it in a
dignified way.  They are reasonable.  The other seven ones are only about
ethics.  They are not only reasonable, but natural, given a society that has
made the cultural steps towards marriage, individual property, and court
justice.

> I'm not preaching, because (here's the payoff): I don't try to get others to
> follow nor do I force them to! BIG difference...

No difference at all, because you are trying to force others to read not only
about the spiritual way you have found but also about the hatred you have for
the spiritual way you have left behind.  That's what disturbs me.

> Oh I don't know...I don't actually try to change anyone's feelings about
> their faith...merely suggest that they might want to seek more info.

Even that is already preaching and puts you on the same level as the preachers
you hate.  Sorry.

> Hmmm...surely I'm better than SOME of them, at least. Maybe most of them.
> Who can say?

Certainly not you.

Cheers,

Bernd