Tires is now Cornering

[Bill Hussey <vfrboy@home.net>]

Seann Dorand wrote:

> First, how the hell do you do a four wheel drift at 75 mph?

The cars handling characteristics will change only slightly from 50mph to 80mph,
gradually build your speed up each day through a favorite, familiar corner that
you can see all the way around.  Keep in mind that as much as your brain is
telling you that your car is about to break loose and do something drastic ...
it isn't.  This car is EXTREMELY predictable and there isn't much you can do to
really upset it.  The balance is so good that you can just keep increasing speed
until you feel the car begin to gently move off it's intended line.  This is the
point where you lightly back off the throttle and modulate the gas to get you
through the turn, do this properly and keep to the correct line and you have
just cornered as hard as the car can.

> I drive 60 miles each way to work (120 round-trip) every day on from North
> of Philly to Newark Delaware on a daily basis.  I have a 100% stock 2000
> Jetta VR6 5-spd with the GA's 205/55/R16's.  I usually cruise between 85 and
> 95mph but have never come close to drifting this thing.

Not many places to do it safely in Jersey ... you can probably find a specific
turn or two on your commute to attack each day.

> How do you tell the difference between what the chasis is doing and what the
> suspension is doing?  I used to drive an 88 Cavalier Z24... it was not very
> predictable... you either stuck like glue with no body roll whatsover or the
> ass end was GONE if you went in too hot.

I've been sitting here with my cursor blinking at this paragraph for a few
minutes now trying to figure out how to explain this to you ... unfortunately,
there's no easy way to do it.  If you're in North Jersey some time though ...
I'll be happy to show you.

> I drive about 60,000 miles a year and have been driving fast my entire life,
> but I am STILL not very confident taking corners at very high speeds in this
> Jetta either due to the chasis or suspension.. not sure which one.  I feel
> like if I take an exit ramp too hot or something that the car would roll
> over or flip before ANY of the tires would consider sliding or drifting
> especially with the ASR turned on.  I do agree with Bill though that hitting
> a bump going while going around a corner the car soaks it up really good..
> the car feels a bit floaty at 100mph+

This has to do with the amount of lift built into the aerodynamics of the car
and poor calibration of the stock suspension.  Almost every production car in
the world is designed to produce lift rather than downforce from the factory.
Not a lot mind you, usually less than 200 lbs worth at 80mph, but it is still
lift none-the-less.  They do this to increase gas mileage ratings and reduce
wear on tires.  All stock Jetta's have the same floaty feel at over 100.  Best
thing you can do is put in stiffer springs.  They will hold tighter as the car
increases speed over the stock ones and many people on this list have reported a
complete loss of the "float" after installing aftermarket springs.

> and yes... the gas mileage sux bigtime.  I have about 145 miles on the car
> by the time I hit half a tank.

A men.

> I either want to improve my ability to sense what the car is going to do or
> do away with the body roll.....  any suggestions?

The stock shocks are damped pretty damn well.  The stock springs could use some
improvement, they dive way too much under threshold braking.  Aftermarket
springs will do fine, but they usually come out a little too stiff.  Springs can
and will reduce body roll, but thicker sway bars will do a much better job of it
and they will not bring anywhere near the same level of harshness that springs
bring.  My personaly opinion, leave the shocks (maybe go to sport Bilsteins, but
the stockers are very decent), throw on thicker sway bars from and rear (not too
much thicker in the rear, you will increase oversteer), and I'd try to find out
what the stock spring rate is from VW and find a shop that will cut you new
springs under your specs.  Increase spring rate by about 20% and have the spring
cut about 3/4 of an inch to 1 inch lower.  20% stiffer shouldn't be that harsh,
but it will be enough to arrest some of the brake dive and the sway bars will
all but eliminate body roll completely.

Again, this is just my opinion, I have not tested this setup at all, but judging
from my seat of the pants feel on the stock car, that setup should provide
exactly what you are looking for.

Bill
'98 GLX