Re: [Fwd: SCARRRYY!!!!]

["Michael & Carmen Keith" <mikeandcarmen@pdq.net>]

Joseph:

If you have never come close to losing control, you're not pushing the car
hard enough.

Seriously though, I don't think your criticism of George's driving was
warranted.  He was only trying to point out the drastic difference between a
well modified suspension & a stock suspension, & his points are valid.
However, you have to push a stock suspension very hard to notice any of
this.  If you only drive the car at 7 to 8/10th's, it feels perfectly fine.

I can relate to George's experience.  After a race weekend, my GLX (with
stock suspension) feels like complete shit because I've become accustomed to
driving a 2100 pound race car with sticky tire at 10/10th's.  I have to be
really careful until I reacquaint myself with the GLX's substantially lower
cornering limits.

By the way, if you can't make it to CA so that George can spank you around
the race track, come to Texas instead, & I'd be happy to do it for him.  I'm
on your side George, but don't come near me with that Buick station wagon!

Forget the group hug, it's more fun to fight!

Michael Keith
'98 Jetta GLX
'85 Golf SCCA ITB/DSP
-----Original Message-----
From: George Turner, Jr. <george@dxnet.com>
To: jettaglx@igtc.com <jettaglx@igtc.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: SCARRRYY!!!!]


>ok...let me set the record straight.
>I know you all marvel at my stunning driving ability and would like to be
like me!..8)
>but what I consider an almost accident may be different from some of you
guys.
>I consider taking an onramp at 50 mph when I usually take the same ramp at
80..and half way thru the ramp there is a dip.  on the dip, the back end of
the car hops into the next lane, almost hitting another car.  *almost
accident #1*.. but my stunning driving ability allowed me to keep control of
the car.
>I can honestly say that I can drive soo good, that I can do a 720 on the
freeway in a Buick station wagon going 85+ mph and still keep the car
rolling.. not rolling over, but going with the flow of traffic, and continue
going with the flow of traffic.
>*almost accident #2*.. driving in a straight line @ 70mph and you come
across a raised portion of the freeway.  with stock suspension, it darn near
makes the car jump and bounce into the next lane, almost hitting another
car.  with a race set up, the car does not bounce (but you would not know
that if you never drove or owned one).  tens of thousands of people drive
the same suspension every day, but not everyone is use to driving a finely
tuned machine like mines.  I invite any of you to come *test* my driving
skills out on some cali cyn's.  the last two people who challenged me are
now driving rentals.  for some reason, they could not keep their cars on the
pavement.  it is hard to drive a stock car when you are use to driving a
race car.  I can honestly say, that if you never lost control of a car, you
have not been driving long enough.  you have to lose control of your car a
couple time to see what the car can do.  going around turns with your tires
crying does not constit!
>ute pushing or racing your car.  when you become a real driver and stop
playing around in rentals... come out with me and the Porsche club at willow
springs and see how your glx will fare against mines...
>until next time... on the track, or on a cyn run...you call the shot.
>george (and his amazing driving skills)
>I am not afraid to say it....... I still love you.
>george
>-----Original Message-----
>From: S. Joseph Mann <joem@pswtech.com>
>To: jettaglx@igtc.com <jettaglx@igtc.com>
>Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 7:54 PM
>Subject: Re: [Fwd: SCARRRYY!!!!]
>
>
>>George when I grow up I want to be just like you. Yeah!  Ok, this "Can't
>>we all get along" crap is getting deep.
>>
>>As for your stunning ability to drive a car, if I'm not mistaken you
>>told us just last night that you almost lost control of a vehicle with a
>>stock suspension that tens of thousands of people around the word drive
>>every FREAKING DAY!!.  And, George, they don't seem to have a problem.
>>It must be that stunning driving ability of yours.
>>
>>I travel a great deal, and in doing so I rent many different cars. All,
>>make my GLX seem like a formula one racer. In my travels I've had the
>>pleasure of driving everything from a Geo Prism to a Buick LaSabre with
>>the oh so cushy Dynaride suspension. Surprisingly, and much to your
>>chagrin, I have yet to loose control of a single vehicle.  It must be my
>>adolescent, impoverished, inept driving ability.
>>
>>Now, as for putting people down, flaming the intelligently challenged,
>>and generally just given folks shit,...IF I ever compose an email with
>>content stating that I can not control well know, mass produced,
>>European sports sedan, PLEEEEASE! abuse me heavily. Very heavily.
>>
>>:)
>>
>>
>>George Turner, Jr. wrote:
>>
>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<WITH ALL DUE RESPECT>>>>>>>>>
>>>  IN RESPONSE TO EVERYONE
>>> I know how to drive, I am sure I drive much better than those attempting
to put
>>> me down.  Once you can beat me on the autocross coarse, or on the
track... then
>>> talk to me.  Also, I do not drink, never have,  never will.
>>> I basically never owned a stock glx.  I preferred to change it when I
got mines
>>> because I did not like the way it felt.  I have never owned a car whose
stock
>>> suspension was soo bad.  My previous car was a passat, and it handled
much better
>>> than the glx with no mods.. before that I owned a Porsche 944 turbo.  To
go from
>>> cars that handle pretty good with no mods to a car than sucked is mind
boggling.
>>> I am not the one to slide assignee comments in on anyone.  I dont treat
you that
>>> way, and dont expect any of you to treat me that way.  If you have a
problem with
>>> something I say, be a bigger man and take it off the list.  THAT IS FOR
EVERYONE.
>>> you can email me privately, or even call me and express your feelings.
310-671-6962.
>>> I put up with reading all the childish bickering for the past couple
days because
>>> some else expressed their opinion on something they see daily.  ALL I
HAVE TO SAY IS > GROW UP!.
>>> I thought this list was to express experiences, tell what works and what
doesn't,
>>> and where to get the best deals... if I am wrong..someone please let me
know.  it
>>> amazes me to see how grown men can act.  the ones usually doing the
silly comments
>>> are the ones who usually cannot afford the mods others talk about.
jealousy is a
>>> silly thing. we are here to accomplish a common goal... fix up and enjoy
our VW's.
>>> not put down the next man for their thoughts and experiences.
>>> george (a very disappointed list member)
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: S. Joseph Mann <joem@pswtech.com>
>>> To: jettaglx@igtc.com <jettaglx@igtc.com>
>>> Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 10:31 PM
>>> Subject: Re: SCARRRYY!!!!
>>>
>>> >George,
>>> >
>>> >(I almost crashed 4 times!) PLEASE! With all due respect, literally,
>>> >LEARN TO DRIVE. OR, verify that all the original parts are connected
>>> >properly, i.e. SWAY BARS!  I've driven my bone stock GLX for over 3
>>> >years, often at the limits of it's speed, and never once come close to
>>> >loosing control.
>>> >
>>> >Your car does not GIVE you control, you EXERT it.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> George Turner, Jr. wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>    I experienced one of the scariest things ever over the weekend.  I
>>> >> drove a GLX with STOCK suspension! (no disrespect to fellow glx'ers
>>> >> with stock suspension)  To make a long story short.. I got rid of my
>>> >> carrera coil overs and put back on my stock suspension till the H&R's
>>> >> come in.  I have been driving my car with a performance suspension
>>> >> about 3 weeks after I got it and forgot what it feels like to drive a
>>> >> stock GLX.  On Friday night I had to drive about 30 miles to a
friends
>>> >> house to pick up a banner for the VW club, on the way I almost
crashed
>>> >> 4 times!  I never knew changing lanes, going on and off on ramps,
and
>>> >> uneven roads could be soo dangerous!  I was never soo scared to drive
>>> >> a car before in my life.  It got to the point where I almost pulled
>>> >> over and called AAA for a tow back home!  The car totally has a
>>> >> different personality..  I hit a bump while driving and turning at
the
>>> >> same time and the car almost jumped totally into the next lane.
>>> >> SCARY!!  even a crappy suspension set up is better than driving a car
>>> >> stock!  spinning out on the freeway while going 95 mph in traffic
does
>>> >> not compare to how scared I was driving the car with stock
>>> >> suspension.
>>> >> MORAL:  forget chips, rims, and all that other stuff...change your
>>> >> suspension FIRST!!!
>>> >> btw..I measured the difference between the stock set up and the
height
>>> >> in had the car with the coil overs.. it was 3 1/4 inches!!  The ride
>>> >> quality was still pretty good..
>>> >> George
>>> >
>>
>