RE: Walker Whines While Mavs Win

["Sean Giovanello" <sgiovanello@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Well, I certainly like Antoine.  I still think he would be the second
best player on this team and with the way Pierce has been struggling
could have even been the best.

My problem was never in trading him.  It became necessary when they
traded for Vin Baker.  Its impossible for a team to have 3 max guys like
that when they don't want to pay the tax.  It was not a question of if,
but rather of when.  When became certain when Danny Ainge took over the
team.

My gripe (from the time of the deal and even now) is that I think we
traded Walker both too quickly and too early.  Walker was one of those
guys who had more value to the team he was on (at this time) than to any
other team in the league.  A year from now that would be a much
different situation - the value of an expiring max deal is pretty
enticing to teams seeking to clear cap space.  Regardless of that, my
primary gripe centered on taking Raef back.  Some of you seem to think
Raef is better than Toine.  I do not.  Some of you seem to view that
Raefs salary is "better" than Antoines.  I do not think so.  The length
and dollar amount expended on Raef is bad news indeed.  It will limit
salary flexibility over the coming years (we have lucked out in
seemingly being rid of Vin - otherwise it would have been untenable) and
Raef will be very difficult to trade until he is near the end of the
contract (the market for guys with bad knees, perceived soft play, and a
bad contract is a small one).

I liked getting Jiri back in the deal.  I liked getting a contract like
Mills.  I question the value of the draft pick - its hit or miss at that
point and teams miss far more than hit there as well.  Further, it
requires the guaranteed deal and I think that's a disincentive.  

While there might be some people who would be mad that Antoine would be
traded at all, I think the majority of people who have been skeptical or
critical of this deal felt the timing was wrong, the price was not
right, and the length of the major contracts out of proportion.

   

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-celtics@xxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-celtics@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Shawn Niles
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:24 PM
To: berrym@xxxxxxxxxxxx; celtics@xxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Walker Whines While Mavs Win

Exactly. Maybe my message came across the wrong way, but I agree with
every 
word you said. I have been on board with the trade since the day it 
happened. I was sorta referring my post to those 'blindly loyal' to
Antoine 
because I think they are the only ones still saying they wish he was
here.

A few days after the trade I likened it to the Drew Bledsoe trade. I
stand 
by that. Remember all the hubub at first abou how the Bledsoe trade
could 
come back to haunt the Pats? There was all the....  who's better? Tom or

Drew? talk. You don't hear that talk anymore. I think it will be the
same 
with Antoine. Already there are very few people who wish he were still
here. 
I think as the years go by, that list will be zero. This may end up
going 
down as Ainge's best trade, in terms of what we got for talent and what
we 
gave up in talent. Think about it.... the trade isn't even complete yet
for 
the C's. We still don't even know what will become of the draft pick or
what 
type of player that will get us.


>From: "Berry, Mark  S" <berrym@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: celtics@xxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: Walker Whines While Mavs Win
>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:42:34 -0500
>
>Shawn wrote:
>
>
>
>I can't imagine anyone still being upset that this nutjob is no longer
>on the C's.
>
>
>
>--- --- ---
>
>
>
>But, Shawn, it's not about trading him, it's about what we got in
>return. Clearly, Ainge could have traded Antoine for Kobe or T-Mac or
>someone like that, but Ainge was determined to take the worst deal
>available. Or he could have held onto Antoine and let him opt out after
>this season to walk away for nothing, or kept him another season.
>Antoine would have been great to have around, don't you think? A real
>happy camper.
>
>
>
>Look, I understand the criticism for taking on LaFrentz's contract. If
>Raef doesn't come back healthy and average something close to 14 and 7,
>the contract looks awful. But look at the rest of the deal - Jiri
Welsch
>(would anyone, considering salaries, trade Jiri for Antoine straight-up
>right now? Anyone? Other than Don Nelson, of course, who I'm sure would
>love to have Welsch and rid himself of Antoine ... ); Chucky Atkins and
>two first-round picks (Detroit and Dallas). Plus $3 million. Isn't that
>pretty darn good? Next season, it's very possible that three-fifths of
>the Celtics' starting lineup will have come from the Antoine trade.
>
>
>
>It's really not fair to pile on Antoine at this point. Only the most
>blindly loyal Antoine fan couldn't see this coming. He is what he is,
>and that didn't magically change when he went to Dallas. He doesn't
like
>to be coached, as this article clearly shows. The Celtics still would
be
>stuck in the same rut if he were here. He's not. Thank goodness.
>
>
>
>Mark

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