RE: "It's not only shortsighted, it's obstinate."-Globe

[Kim <kimmalo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

No, JJ was still primarily under Pitino, whether you like it or not. And did get his minutes until he played his way back onto the pine - EXACTLY as he did in serial fashion for most of his tenure in Phoenix, which should make it clear where the issues were. Everyone loves his skills but his passiveness will break your heart.

Yes Walter's minutes went up at the time of the trade. I was pissed at the time, as I do NOT love Walter as a basketball player, however fine a human being he may be. However there's been far too much talk of his getting 40 min per game here, as if that were a constant occurance. It's not. And whether you think I'm taking the 40 minutes too literally or not, that is literally what was said. Anything else is you twisting what was said to better suit your own point (see your own comments about distorting or framing what someone else says - apparently it's only wrong when you can accuse someone else of doing it?).  Funny, BTW, how suddenly the Cs owners are the most credible people on earth about everything. While I really fail to see where I'm trying to whitewash anything, although of course to someone already biased the other way...

And if you think I *really* slammed Ainge, you must really find the way most people on this board talk of anyone far too much for your delicate sensibilities. Except of course when their biases follow yours, I expect. I didn't distort or frame his quotes. I responded to a post about them. If that post was wrong, then go get your knickers in a twist at the person who deserves it. 
Kim

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Murphy <tfmiii@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Feb 28, 2004 3:22 PM
To: Celtic list <celtics@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: "It's not only shortsighted, it's obstinate."-Globe

Speaking of inaccurate....

JJ WAS under Obie's watch.

And as far as minutes for McCarty -- they exploded after the Davis trade,
which as I recall was the point when Wyc said that the coaching staff
basically went on strike (an assessment I can agree with). If you want to
discuss when Obie's "obstinacy" became untenable, I suggest you focus on
that the time frame after that trade, and not try to whitewash or obscure
the extent of the "coach revolt."

Also I think your taking the the "40 minutes" comment far too literally,
which fails to credit the point of the comment, something I think we all can
understand. And in any case, McCarty's minutes actually dropped under
Carroll -- even before the Hunter experiment got off the ground. McCarty's
minutes reached their zenith under Obie during the "coach revolt." I know, I
went back and reviewed the numbers.

Finally, I don't recall Ainge singling out any particular person (Obie) in
his comments -- that "interpretation" was interpolated into the quote by the
reporter.

<< "Another key to the vision is a greater emphasis on developing young
 players," said Ainge, defending himself against O'Brien's army of
 supporters. "I feel like players like Joe Johnson and Chauncey Billups
 should be able to develop.">>

Ainge was instead quite clearly talking about different visions or
philosophies not individuals, and given that, it makes perfect sense for him
to talk about Chauncey. Although it may be very tempting to read every
comment Ainge makes about his vision as a personal slam against Obie
(particularly given the current press obsession with the "noble coach"
trope), I would caution against it. It leads to an inaccurate reading of
what Ainge actually said.

Now if you *really* feel the urge to slam Ainge, I humbly suggest you look
up what he says about Neidnagel. No need to distort or "frame" his quotes
with regard to that matter.

Cheers - TomM
------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:27:28 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Kim <kimmalo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] "It's not only shortsighted, it's
obstinate."-Globe

It's also inaccurate and cheap shots. JJ and Billups were of course on
Pitino's watch, not Obie.  Blount's 40 min games have been relatively few
and almost all since Obie left, with Walter's even fewer and ditto on
timing. Nor was Marcus only playing 10 min a night. While Ainge himself,
after Obie left,  said that Perkins would not see much more PT this season
because he was developing but not really ready.