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Re: Don't get the detractors
I don't think it is wrong.
Here's the best team of the Bird Era roster:
Larry Bird
Kevin McHale
Robert Parish
Dennis Johnson
Danny Ainge
Scott Wedman
Bill Walton
Jerry Sichting
David Thirdkill
Sam Vincent
Sly Williams
Rick Carlisle
vs. our current roster:
Chucky Atkins
11 Marcus Banks
30 Mark Blount
12 Ricky Davis
56 Brandon Hunter
20 Jumaine Jones
45 Raef LaFrentz*
0 Walter McCarty
4 Chris Mihm
43 Kendrick Perkins*
34 Paul Pierce
5 Michael Stewart
44 Jiri Welsch
The only top flight athletes on the first roster are DJ, and maybe
Ainge. Pierce might be comparable to DJ physically, and he's probably
the third best athlete on the team (after davis, walter, and jumaine jones.)
That's just at the top; go down the roster, and you'd have a hard time
making the case that a single player on the 86 roster could compete
in a combine-style physical drill with ANY of our current roster. Only
LaFrentz could be out quicked and/or out-muscled or out-leapt by a member
of the greatest team in recent basketball history.
Josh
The current Celtics have no less than
----- Original Message -----
From: "Snoopy the Celtics Beagle" <snoopy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <celtics@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: Don't get the detractors
> Perhaps so, but that's not what Dan said.
>
> He said, "They regularly dumped on the Bird era slomo basketball yet we
> won't 3 titles from a superior athletic team."
> To me, that means that Dan is stating that THIS CURRENT CELTICS ROSTER is
> athletically superior to the Bird-era teams.
>
> And that, I say, is wrong.
>
> At 04:31 PM 2/22/2004, Josh Ozersky wrote:
>
> >Snoopy,
> >
> >I think what people mean when say that "athletically superior"
> >is not that they are better players, but just have greater physical
> >tools. "athleticism" in this sense basically is an umbrella term
> >for vertical leap, quickness, and so on. Think of Jerome Moiso,
> >and some of the freak specimens recently imported to the NBA
> >from exotic lands. That's all it means. The bird teams had two
> >great athletes in DJ and Ainge, and of course all three frontcourt
> >players had great physical gifts (Bird's hand quickness, Parish's
> >footspeed, McHale's ridiculous arms) but were generally klutzy
> >and cumbersome in comparison with the league's sleekest specimens.
> >
> >Josh
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Snoopy the Celtics Beagle" <snoopy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: <celtics@xxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 4:12 PM
> >Subject: Re: Don't get the detractors
> >
> >
> > > Wait a minute, there. I can't be reading that one right. Did you
just
> > > state that the current roster of Celtics players are athletically
superior
> > > to the "Bird era" teams???
> > >
> > > Because if you did, I have point out that I believe you are wrong.
> > >
> > > Let's look at some of the players of the "Bird Era", 1979-80 to
1991-92,
> > > focusing on the most recognizable names. I went to
www.celticstats.com
> >for
> > > the list.
> > >
> > > Danny Ainge, Nate Archibald, Dee Brown, Larry Bird, Quinn Buckner, ML
> >Carr,
> > > Don Chaney, Dave Cowens, Chris Ford, Kevin Gamble, Gerald Henderson,
> >Dennis
> > > Johnson, Reggie Lewis, Pete Maravich, Cedric Maxwell, Kevin McHale,
Robert
> > > Parish, Rick Robey, Brian Shaw, Jerry Sichting, and Bill Walton.
> > >
> > > Now, let's look at the roster as it is today:
> > >
> > > Chucky Atkins, Vin Baker, Marcus Banks, Mark Blount, Ricky Davis,
Brandon
> > > Hunter, Lindsey Hunter, Jumaine Jones, Raef LaFrentz, Walter McCarty,
> >Chris
> > > Mihm, Kendrick Perkins, Paul Pierce, Michael Stewart, and Jiri Welsch.
> > >
> > > Of that group, Raef is out for the season, Atkins couldn't even report
to
> > > play because of a biopsy performed in the wake of his physical,
Lindsey
> > > Hunter was put on waivers before the ink dried on the trade
> > > agreement, Baker's situation is up in the air until the arbitration
is
> > > complete.
> > >
> > > Of those who ARE playing, Banks, Brandon Hunter, and Perkins are all
> > > rookies. Welsh has one year to his name. Chris Mihm can't go more
than a
> > > few minutes without collecting fouls like trading cards, Blount drops
any
> > > pass sent to him faster than 5 mph, Walter's been relegated to three
point
> > > shooting so long he's nearly forgotten how to do anything else, and
no
> >one
> > > seems to know what they're doing as a team.
> > >
> > > So, I think we've resolved the relative athletic abilities of these
> >groups.
> > >
> > > as to the "Bird era slomo teams" concept, try asking Pat Riley how
many
> > > grey hairs he got when the three slowest guys in NBA history--Larry
Bird,
> > > Robert Parish, and Bill Walton--were running the fast break against
the
> > > Lakers and winning!!
> > >
> > > Those teams racked up three consecutive seasons of 60+ wins in the
regular
> > > season. That means in three consecutive years, the won over 180
> > > games. This team won 129 games in the three seasons prior to this
one,
> > > That's an average of 43 wins each season. Don't gripe about the
lockout
> > > year, because they were losing so badly(35-47), their percentages
would
> > > likely have dropped if it had gone the full 82 games. RIGHT NOW,
they're
> > > 23-34.
> > >
> > > I like our current team, and want very much for them to find a way to
> > > win. But there is no way on this earth or any other--unless there's
an
> > > earth out there where the Celtics roster comprises the membership of
the
> > > Justice League--that this group can in any compare with that one.
Only
> > > Paul Pierce can make any reasonable claim to being in that mix, and
his
> > > recent play has diminished him considerably in that regard.
> > >
> > > It just isn't so.
> > >
> > > At 02:49 PM 2/22/2004, Dan Forant wrote:
> > >
> > > >The detractors have made it political like and just don't like Ainge
> >because
> > > >he shipped out Toine's uncoachable butt.. I'm convinced even if in a
year
> >2
> > > >or 3 we win the Conference they will be naysayers because of the
Toine
> > > >trade. The Boston Press is true to form. They regularly dumped on the
> >Bird
> > > >era slomo basketball yet we won't 3 titles from a superior athletic
team.
> > > >
> > > >DanF
> > >
> > > Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
> > > Please visit the <http://www.celticsbeagle.net/>Celtics Beagle Website