Re: traded who for what?

[Snoopy the Celtics Beagle <snoopy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

At 03:56 PM 2/19/2004, Jim Hill wrote:

> >The main reason Red made those great deals is he suckered the
> >other teams.  Nobody had any desire to give him anything of value, and he
> >outsmarted them.
>
> >Danny isn't an idiot, but he's NOT as smart as Red at making deals.
>
>Well that is like comparing footballs to The Big Pumpkin Snoop.

That's "GREAT Pumpkin".


>In the first case:
>
>Red operated before cable, before video tape, before large teams of scouting
>assistants, before big money college coaches and their large scouting
>networks, before the industry based on rating potential NBA players came
>into being, etc ... .

Not when he landed Larry Bird.


>Way back when, Red made deep friendships among college coaches by traveling
>in the off season and giving basketball clinics etc...  It is said that in
>some cases, a clinic by a NBA coach, like Red, brought enough credibility to
>a college coach for him to retain his job.  These coaches then contacted Red
>when they thought they had a sleeper. And Red saw guys himself that other
>NBA coach's didn't.  That's a huge benefit.

But that's part of my point--Red didn't wait until guys were already IN the 
NBA to get them--he looked early and often and made moves to acquire 
players before other coaches knew anything about them; something Ainge has 
not evidently done.


>The most recent example of this is our own Kedrick Brown and Wallace.  Proof
>enough that this isn't a working option anymore.
>
>In the second case:
>
>There weren't as many teams drafting from the same shallow pool back then.
>And the teams worked together rather then against each other.  I doubt the
>same level of collusion would be found "acceptable" or allowed today.

The very fact that there are more players out there means we need to keep 
the good ones and train them up--granted, a lot of that problem is properly 
laid at the feet of ML Carr and Rick Pitino, but I still think we gave up 
on Walker too soon.


>The third case:
>
>There isn't now, nor will be another "Red".  But he did not hit a home run
>each trade and had a few clunkers as well.

Absolutely--but with Red, there was always the sense that he knew what he 
was doing--even when he missed.  Ainge doesn't have that cachet.


> >I love the Celtics, and I've always rooted for them, even when things were
> >going badly, but Danny's going to have to work really hard to convince me
> >this latest trade is a good idea.
>
>Well I am disappointed as well.  However, except for Detroit getting signing
>space for Okur next year and a chance at resigning Wallace, who I don't like
>anyway, what else was actually done that benefited anyone as a current
>talent upgrade?

Why trade at all, then? To get "good will" from Detroit??  A possible back 
scratching down the road? Unlikely.


>The potential of gaining a "chit" from Dumars and sticking it to NY has
>potential value as well.

I'm more likely to believe that Joe Dumars is on the phone with Isaiah 
Thomas and laughing at Danny Ainge.

Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
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