Re: News Synopsis: Mills Cap Godsend,Next Celtics Coach,Attack Of The NY Trades, Best Player, Ainge Trades

["Josh Ozersky" <jozersky@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Ravi,

Great post.  This is what I've been waiting to read, instead
of the usual nostrums about young players.  All I ask for
is oncourt evidence.  I don't know if I'm convinced, but I'll
look for the things you say the next time I see Kendrick play.
(Probably next November.)

Josh
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "R. Singh" <keltsfan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'celtics list'" <celtics@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 1:00 PM
Subject: RE: News Synopsis: Mills Cap Godsend,Next Celtics Coach,Attack Of
The NY Trades, Best Player, Ainge Trades


> Josh,
>
> You might want to quit looking at the stats and just watch him. And if
> you are so determined to look at stats, remember the term: garbage time.
> In any event, he gets beat off the dribble by his man and is subject to
> being woefully out of position if his man puts even a half-assed low
> post move on him.  He goes for the slightest of upfakes from even the
> most inconsequential low post player he's guarding, consequently fouling
> him as he tries to either get back in position or block a shot, he's
> three steps too slow trying to help on penetration. He gets completely
> lost on pick and roll.
>
> Ravi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-celtics@xxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-celtics@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Josh Ozersky
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 9:37 AM
> To: R. Singh; celtics list
> Subject: Re: News Synopsis: Mills Cap Godsend,Next Celtics Coach,Attack
> Of The NY Trades, Best Player, Ainge Trades
>
>
> So how is it that every time he gets two minutes, he ends
> up with a couple of rebounds and a basket?  How can you
> say he would get abused?  How do you know?  He sure wasn't abused in the
> handful of minutes they grudginly doled out to him so far.  And what is
> abused, anyway?  Someone might score on him?  Is the guy supposed to
> wait until he's a full-blown stopper before he gets five minutes of game
> time?  Gimme a break.
>
> Josh
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "R. Singh" <keltsfan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <celtics@xxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 12:23 PM
> Subject: RE: News Synopsis: Mills Cap Godsend,Next Celtics Coach,Attack
> Of The NY Trades, Best Player, Ainge Trades
>
>
> > Josh,
> >
> > From the little I've seen, Kendrick is NOT ready. He hasn't adjusted
> > to the speed of the NBA game yet and needs to continue to work on his
> > body and develop what little athleticism he does possess to facilitate
>
> > that adjustment. He appears eager to work based on how much his body
> > has changed in the five months since training camp so that is a very
> > positive sign but he would get abused on the court if he even played
> > minor minutes.
> >
> > At this point, Mihm is a more interesting prospect. He's freakishly
> > athletic for a big man, possesses good rebounding and shot blocking
> > instincts and is a legitimate seven footer. Needs to work all summer
> > on a couple of low post moves to free up his shot and also needs to
> > shoot 500-1000 15-18 footers per day to expand his face the basket
> > game.
> >
> > Ravi
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-celtics@xxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-celtics@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf
>
> > Of Josh Ozersky
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 8:43 AM
> > To: Berry, Mark S; celtics list
> > Subject: Re: News Synopsis: Mills Cap Godsend,Next Celtics
> > Coach,Attack Of The NY Trades, Best Player, Ainge Trades
> >
> >
> > Mark, I still don't see how we know Kendrick isn't ready. Says who?
> > He can't get backup minutes behind Mark Blount? How now ready is he?
> > And why?  All players should get a chance, whatever their age.  Darryl
>
> > Dawkins was a big help to the sixers as a rookie.  Ditto Moses Malone
> > in Portland.  Not that Kendrick is as good, but...they should play him
>
> > as much as he deserves.  How can you "make sure he can hold his own"
> > without playing him? What is he, anyway? eight years old?
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Berry, Mark S" <berrym@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "Josh Ozersky" <jozersky@xxxxxxxxxx>; "celtics list"
> > <celtics@xxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 11:34 AM
> > Subject: RE: News Synopsis: Mills Cap Godsend,Next Celtics
> Coach,Attack
> > Of The NY Trades, Best Player, Ainge Trades
> >
> >
> > Josh,
> >
> > On Kendrick ... I think he could contribute something, and would like
> > to see him in small increments. But you play guys that young, you're
> > going to lose. That's just the way it works. If your argument is the
> > team is losing anyway, why not play Kendrick ... then that's fine. But
>
> > I don't think they're ready to give up on the season. I think it's a
> > stretch to believe Kendrick is ready to be a contributor on a winning
> > team. He may be ready next season. It may be the season after. But if
> > he plays big minutes right now, it's probably a sign they're giving up
>
> > on the season. Is he better than Darko Milicic? There's plenty of
> > time. Let's make sure he's ready to at least hold his own.
> >
> > On Pierce ... Two years ago, I would have put Pierce in the group
> > right behind Shaq, Duncan, Garnett (who I love) and Kobe. Now, he's a
> > notch or two lower. Like I said, I'd put him in there with Francis,
> > Baron Davis, Iverson, Jermaine O'Neal, Stephon Marbury, Dirk Nowtizki,
>
> > Steve Nash, Peja Stojakovic, Ray Allen ... They're the very good
> > players, but below the top four, and a tick below Kidd and T-Mac. If
> > they traded Pierce for any of those guys in the Francis, Davis group,
> > I might not agree with it, but I'd agree the value is pretty
> > comparable.
> >
> > It's all a matter of opinion. I just think Pierce is in the middle of
> > a second straight "OK" season. He was just "OK" last year, when
> > Antoine was there, so I don't buy the argument that he's struggling
> > without Antoine. Maybe this is what he is. If so, that's still pretty
> > good. But it's not GREAT.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Josh Ozersky [mailto:jozersky@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 11:05 AM
> > To: Berry, Mark S; celtics list
> > Subject: Re: News Synopsis: Mills Cap Godsend,Next Celtics
> > Coach,Attack Of The NY Trades, Best Player, Ainge Trades
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > two points:
> >
> > 1)  why is Kendrick not ready because of his calendar age?  And how is
>
> > riding the pine going to get him ready.  He looks ready to me.  If he
> > plays and he's bad, then you say he's not ready, and send him to Pete
> > Newell's camp or something.  But if he can play, he should play.  He
> > wouldn't be the first big man who contributed as a hardship case.
> >
> > 2)  Pierce:  I thought your list was interesting, because while I
> > agree that Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan are clearly on another level, I
> > don't think I would put Garnett in Pierce's league.  For all his
> > stat-stuffing, you can't give KG the ball in the 4th quarter and tell
> > him to carry the team to a win, let alone in the playoffs.  I would
> > say that there is a 2nd tier of MVP players to  which Pierce belongs:
>
> > Iverson is in there too, along with Jason Kidd, Baron Davis, and maybe
>
> > T-Mac, although he's never proved anything in the playoffs yet either.
>
> > Pierce needs another star, not just a big animal in the post.  Baker
> > actually complemented him really well when he was sober...as did
> > Antoine, for all his faults.  I think if we trade, it should be for a
> > scoring big man, not lust another ox.
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Berry, Mark S" <berrym@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "Josh Ozersky" <jozersky@xxxxxxxxxx>; "celtics list"
> > <celtics@xxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 10:46 AM
> > Subject: RE: News Synopsis: Mills Cap Godsend, Next Celtics
> Coach,Attack
> > Of The NY Trades, Best Player, Ainge Trades
> >
> >
> > Believe me, Josh, I'm not saying you give Pierce away. I'm not even
> > saying they should trade him. But I'll be watching very closely the
> > rest of this season, and I'm betting Ainge will be too. Pierce had a
> > great half-season after Pitino left, a great season after that, and
> > has been good-not-great for the season and a half since. He hasn't
> > made adjustments or added to his game. And he certainly hasn't
> > responded well to adversity this season. He desperately needs an
> > impact point guard - someone to be the leader on the floor and keep
> > the team and Pierce focused. Pierce too easily becomes distracted and
> > disinterested. If he's not going to be the leader, they need someone
> > who will be. And that guy needs to be the point guard.
> >
> > On the big guys ... I don't consider Dampier just another guy,
> > especially in the East. I think he'd be a nice bridge until Kendrick
> > is ready. I wish that was today, but realistically it's hard to expect
>
> > too much of the kid just a few months out of high school. No one is
> > more excited about his potential than I am, but let's give him some
> > time. You turn the season over to high school kids, and you're writing
>
> > off the season altogether. And next season, too.
> >
> > Hunter is different. That's a four-year college guy with an NBA body
> > losing minutes to Walter McCarty. I'm completely on board with playing
>
> > Hunter some serious minutes.
> >
> > Anyway, let's watch this season and see what happens with Pierce. You
> > consider him an MVP caliber player, and I'm not so sure he is. He's
> > not on the Shaq-Duncan-Garnett-Kobe level. I'd argue he's a notch
> > below T-Mac and Jason Kidd, as well. I'd put him in a group with Steve
>
> > Francis, Baron Davis,
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Josh Ozersky [mailto:jozersky@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 10:17 AM
> > To: Berry, Mark S; celtics list
> > Subject: Re: News Synopsis: Mills Cap Godsend, Next Celtics
> > Coach,Attack Of The NY Trades, Best Player, Ainge Trades
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > re Pierce:  I don't think it is that simple.  I remember you saying,
> > in the twilight of the Pitino period, that Pierce was sulky and soft,
> > and had quit on the coach, etc.  Afterwards, Pierce became an MVP type
>
> > player for Obie.  You don't trade a guy like that except for another
> > guy like that.  Period.  Pierce isn't a leader, isn't fiery like Bird
> > or Antoine, doesn't respond well to pressure.  We know all that.  But
> > we know what he is as a basketball player, and when all is said and
> > done, he's also a good guy.  The Celtics need to get him an enforcer,
> > not another big body like Erick Dampier.  Why does everyone take it
> > for granted that Kendrick can't play for another three years?  He
> > looks to me like he can play now.  Same with Hunter. Give him the
> > minutes, and he'll give us the rebounds and toughness we need.  Even
> > the point guard situation would resolve itself under a real coach.
> > The only trade we need right now is John Carroll for a pile of earth.
> >
> > Josh
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Berry, Mark S" <berrym@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <Celtics@xxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 9:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: News Synopsis: Mills Cap Godsend, Next Celtics Coach,
> > Attack Of The NY Trades, Best Player, Ainge Trades
> >
> >
> > > Several things to mention:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. The Knicks trade ... This is why I don't care about the media
> > > criticism of Ainge. They actually seem to LIKE this trade for New
> > York.
> > > Look, I like Nazr Mohammed. He's a solid big guy. Not spectacular,
> > > but
> >
> > > solid. The contract isn't great, but it's not terrible either. He'd
> > > be
> > a
> > > decent pickup for anyone. BUT ... He is NOT a good pickup when he
> > comes
> > > attached to Tim Thomas. Tim Thomas may have the worst, most
> > untradeable
> > > contract left in the NBA now that Vin Baker's deal is being voided
> > (more
> > > on that in a minute). He has talent, but he doesn't play hard, shows
> > up
> > > about every fifth game and doesn't do anything that helps a team
> > > win. Does this deal make the Knicks better? Maybe a little. Maybe
> > > not. But are they a championship team? Are they even close? The
> > > answer, obviously, is no. But where is their future? Thomas and
> > > Houston are unmovable. Marbury could be traded, but he now is the
> > > face of the franchise. Penny Hardaway's contract is ridiculous and
> > > has two more seasons on it. Shandon Anderson is overpaid for three
> > > more seasons. Mutombo has two more seasons. Moochie Norris'
> > > ridiculous deal has
> > three
> > > more seasons. Kurt Thomas is their best frontcourt player and he's a
>
> > > free agent after the season. There are no young, tradeable assets
> > > left
> >
> > > unless you count Mike Sweetney. This roster is a mess, and I don't
> > > see
> >
> > > any way out. Isiah has guaranteed them Eastern Conference mediocrity
> > for
> > > years to come. On the other hand, I really like this deal for
> > Milwaukee.
> > > They not only dump one of the league's worst contracts, they add a
> > > better player with a much better contract. I think Van Horn is a
> > > nice fit there. Great deal for the Bucks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2. Paul Westphal ... OK, I know I reneged on my "Westphal for coach"
>
> > > push when I looked into his Seattle days, but do I get any
> > credit
> > > at all if Jersey Red's prediction comes true? Just a little?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 3. The Mills contract ... The story from the Contra Costa Times is
> > > interesting in that it came from the Contra Costa Times. That's a
> > > Bay Area paper covering the Warriors. The Celtics are after Eric
> > > Dampier. You wonder if there's a connection there.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 4. Vin Baker ... Granted, I'm no lawyer, but this union grievance
> > > that's forthcoming just baffles me. It was my understanding that the
>
> > > union signed off on the agreement between Baker and the Celtics.
> > > Isn't
> >
> > > that right? The original agreement didn't pass muster with the
> > > union,
> > so
> > > they hammered out one that was acceptable to the union. So, when
> > > Baker
> >
> > > fails miserably under the terms of this agreement, and the Celtics
> > > exercise their rights under the terms of that agreement, what
> > > grounds does the union have for a grievance? Do we have any contract
>
> > > lawyers
> > on
> > > the list? Can someone explain this to me. I MIGHT be able to
> > understand
> > > if the agreement was unfairly punitive, but this one was exceedingly
>
> > > forgiving. It took FOUR indiscretions by Baker to trigger this final
>
> > > move. I just don't get it. Seems like a slam dunk to me. Of course,
> > I'm
> > > always wrong about this legal stuff.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 5. Paul Pierce ... Forget everything else around this team. Forget
> > > Ainge and trades and Ricky Davis and Vin Baker and the rookies. The
> > rest
> > > of this season has to be dedicated to finding out if Paul Pierce is
> > the
> > > guy to build this team around. I'm becoming less and less convinced.
>
> > > He's had a pair of truly shameful performances in the past couple of
>
> > > weeks - games where he basically lost/never had interest and didn't
> > put
> > > forth satisfactory effort. Add to this the fact that he hasn't made
> > > necessary adjustments for a season and a half and the fact that
> > > teams built around swingmen generally are also-rans (unless that
> > > swingman is
> >
> > > Michael Jordan), and you have to seriously consider the future and
> > > Pierce's place in it. If Pierce plays like he did two seasons ago,
> > he's
> > > a building block. If he continues to play like he has the past
> > > season and a half - and to lose interest like he has in the past
> > > month - he's
> >
> > > not. It's that simple.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark