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re: Tayshaun prince

Mark --

I think you're missing one crucial difference between the rookies who have "seized" their opportunites and those who haven't.

Tayshaun Prince and JR Bremer were seniors coming out of college -- with 4 years of coaching and learning. Joe Johnson and Joe Forte were Sophomores, Kedrick Brown technically a sophmore, but that's playing against Junior College talent.

For Freshman and Sophomores, the model of seizing opportunities seems to be 2-3 years down the road, rather than 1-2. Look at G. Arenas, Jason Richardson, Mike Miller: Sophomores who came out and even with ample playing time took 2-3 years to develop into bona fide NBA starters. Now take that "ample playing time" away from the equation with a player like Kedrick and I don't see why we'd expect him to develop any quicker.

Even players like Kobe, TMac, Jermaine O'Neal, and Garnett took 2-3 years to reach the level where you'd say they're blossoming stars, never mind All-NBA talent (which I don't think any of us expect from KB).

I think that players like Amare Stoudemire (and to a much lesser degree Zach Randolph) are the exception -- HS and college FR or SO that can come in and play a key role. But again look at the talent surrounding Stoudemire and Randolph. Do you think they'd be seen as "can't-miss" if they were playing for the Cavs? Kwame Brown, Eddy Curry, Eddie Griffin, Corey Maggette, Darius Miles, Jamal Crawford, heck even ol' friend Jerome Moiso -- the NBA is littered with players who came into the NBA too early (imho) and take 2-3 years to reach even their basic potential as pros. Just as drafting (see Jerry West and the Utah Brain Trust) was crucial to building a team in the 80s and 90s -- spotting emerging talent already in the NBA and them getting them will be as important now. That and, as McHale put it, patience.

I'm not trying to make excuses for JJ, JB or JF -- but I don't think we can simply say "well you're in the NBA now son, time to produce". The landscape of the NBA draft has changed -- the percentage of rookies who will come in and have an immediate impact will forever be lower (not that it was ever truly high). I always think about it this way: When I was a college sophomore I was just finishing living on my own (i.e. not in a dorm or with the folks) for the first time. By the time I graduated I had been doing it for 3 years. In that 2-3 years I changed a lot as a person -- but i was mostly just going to school, doing student activism and drinking -- NOT having to play basketball against the best players in the world.

I put the onus on the BDT for not seeing this and not diversifiying their draft at all in 2001 -- why take 3 college sophomores? Why not a junior/senior, a Sophomore and a foriegn player (who tend make the adjustment a bit quicker). Of course the list of questions from that draft are endless:

Why take the Denver Pick?
Why take 3 SF/SGs when both your best players are at those positions?
Why pass on a PG at 21?
Why, why, why?

Like I said before the 2001 draft (esp. taking the Denver pick when we really didn't need it and thus could have comfortably gambled on using it the following year) is THE reason to bring in an new Brain Trust. Had we drafted better in 2001 the Baker trade *may* never had happened.

I think our expectations have to change about the draft -- we have to (and I really look forward to Ainge doing this) see the draft as a way to plug holes 2-3 years from now and using smart FA signings as the way to plug holes immediately.

Of course all of this is why I think the NBA is insane for not developing a real minor league system -- where every team whould have a minor league club (like the Providence Celtics or Hartford Celts). I think Kedrick would be a much better player right now if he were playing against even the Omar Cooks and Joe Fortes on a day-in-day out basis. But that's a post for another time.

go celts! #17 here we come.
mark piotrowski

(the other) Mark wrote:

Obie gave Joe Johnson plenty of minutes, and Johnson played his way right
out of the rotation and right into Phoenix. As for Kedrick, what has he ever
done to deserve the minutes? And it's not like they didn't give him chances.
Obie gave him opportunities, and Kedrick didn't do anything with them.
Prince is getting his opportunity and seizing it. I don't think Obie minds
playing young players, as long as they produce. If the Celtics ever find one
of those, maybe Obie will play him.

Josh, I know you're down on Obie (and I am too when it comes to a lot of
things), but at some point the players have to assume responsibility. Joe
Johnson blew it here. He was handed a starting spot and couldn't hold it
because he lived up to his reputation as a drifter. Kedrick has been given
opportunities and never seized them. Vin Baker has only himself to blame for
his problems. These aren't Obie's mistakes. Blame Chris Wallace for bringing
these players to Boston, and blame the players for flopping, but it's hard
to blame Obie for their failures.

As for Prince, I never understood why he was so undervalued at draft time.
He's thin, but you're not asking the guy to play power forward. He's REALLY
long, and a matchup nightmare for smaller swingmen. He can handle the ball
well enough, has great range on his shot, knows how to score around the
basket, is left-handed and played a lot of basketball at the highest level
of college hoops. And yet he was completely discounted at draft time.

Mark

P.S. What is more unbelievable---that the Celtics denied the Hawks
permission to speak to Wallace and Papile, or that the Hawks asked in the
first place? My vote goes to the latter. But if they did ask, why in the
world would the Celts say no? If I'm Wyc, I'm packing their bags and fueling
up the team plane for them.