Re: word usage

["Dan Forant" <dforant1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

  Things must be getting dull, not much round ball talk. If this list is
smart we'll lay off the offensive stuff. We can be sober and to the point
without going over the line. Real sharp disagreements can always be taken
care of off group.

NBA package blacked out here again tonight. Don't think I'll invest next
season unless they get this straightened out.

DanF


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cecil" <cecil@hfx.eastlink.ca>
To: <Celtics@igtc.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: word usage


> Be that as it may, Ryan, there is no need to use that word in this forum.
> And if you feel there is a need, then perhaps I am in the wrong place,
> because I, too, find it to be terribly offensive regardless of the context
> in which it is used.
>
> Cecil
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i@yahoo.com>
> To: <Celtics@igtc.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 6:47 PM
> Subject: Re: word usage
>
>
> > --- Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
> > <snoopy@celticsbeagle.net> wrote:
> > > Ryan W. said:
> > > My bad. But, I still have the right, and will
> > > continue to in the future, to use the word *****.
> > > Perhaps on this list is not the best place. But I
> > > think it fit Kedrick's situation....there is no
> > > reason
> > > to get jerked around by O'Brien in the manner that
> > > he
> > > has been (in and out of games and/or the lineup,
> > > with
> > > seemingly no reason whatsoever). That said, I will
> > > attempt to refrain in the future, but just as Eggy
> > > can
> > > be whimsical, I can say "******". Plus, the word
> > > itself, seeing as it was, is, and, in the future,
> > > will
> > > be a racial slur, should only be censured when used
> > > in
> > > such a manner. You must admit I didn't use it in
> > > such
> > > a way. Furthermore the argument may be made that
> > > using it in non-slurring manners actually helps
> > > remove
> > > the power the word has to hurt. What are your
> > > thoughts on that?
> > >
> > > My first thought is that the subject isn't really
> > > appropriate to the list;
> > > but the question, having been asked, deserves an
> > > answer.
> > >
> > > I don't know how you INTENDED the use of that word,
> > > but it's EFFECT came
> > > across in it's most offensive manner.  First off, is
> > > the situation of it's
> > > use.  We're not discussing "the Black players
> > > experience in the NBA", where
> > > if you were to point out an example such as what
> > > people used to call Bill
> > > Russell (in the Garden,no less) while he was
> > > playing.  That's historical
> > > fact.  Nor is this a review, say of "Tom Sawyer",
> > > during a time and place
> > > when the word was used freely, if wrongly in
> > > hindsight.
> > >
> > > But you're describing, of all things, playing time
> > > for Kedrick Brown; who
> > > happens to be one of many players on the team who
> > > have dark skin.  To me,
> > > that is most definitely NOT a time, place, or
> > > situation where use of that
> > > word is appropriate.  Then, to me, there is pretty
> > > much NO such time.
> >
> > Let me spell out the usage.  Racism is wrong.  It is
> > irrational to discriminate on the basis of skin color.
> >  Likewise it is irrational to say that if one plays
> > defense very well without providing offensive, then it
> > warrants playing time (a la Grant Long), turning
> > around later and not playing Kedrick Brown.
> >
> > Let's put it like this:
> >
> > Proposition One:  Players who play defense very well
> > will get playing time (a paraphrase of what O'Brien
> > said earlier this year--and the only reason Grant Long
> > gets time).
> >
> > Proposition Two:  Kedrick Brown plays great defense
> > (attested by Paul, Antione, coach O'Brien, me, you,
> > Tommy, etc...)
> >
> > Conclusion:  Kedrick Brown should get playing time.
> >
> > But Kedrick Brown doesn't see the light of day...and
> > when he does, and is praised, he later gets a
> > reduction of playing time to about 1-2 meaningless
> > minutes.  And so, like racist people (who, as I will
> > later address, perhaps would describe an African
> > American person as a "******"---which I won't write
> > here, because, yes, it is offensive in this usage),
> > O'Brien is being either irrational or stupid (or maybe
> > his stupidity is a sign of his irrational nature).
> >
> > And so, back to the analogy which was stated as "What
> > does a nigger have to do to get some PT up in this
> > motherfucker?" originally, I was commenting on the
> > analogous situations of irrational discrimination (one
> > being the irrationality of racism, the other the
> > irrationality of not playing Kedrick Brown given the
> > criterion for getting playing time).  If you didn't
> > get it, sorry.  Later on you said :
> >
> > > Not only that, but the fact that the Celtics as a
> > > team have such a long and
> > > well-documented history of fighting racism, that the
> > > use of the word in
> > > describing a Celtics player is mind-boggling.
> >
> > This is a total misrepresentation.  "Nigger" as a
> > word, concept, or idea was used in part of a larger
> > description concerning irrationality (as I've already
> > pointed out).  It was *not* used to describe a
> > Celtic's player.  Come on, Snoop...before seeing
> > something and immediately correlating racist intent,
> > please check out the usage.  Anything came be used for
> > beneficial or improper means, including the word
> > "nigger", and one must look past the mere
> > instantiation of the word to discover and judge its
> > application.
> >
> > > Having said that, I can't stop you from saying what
> > > you want, even if I
> > > disagree, even if I find it offensive.  But if you
> > > do continue to do so,
> > > then I may have to exercise my freedoms and not
> > > listen to you any
> > > longer.  I'm not trying to start a fight here, and I
> > > have no personal beef
> > > with you.  But I believe you were flat-out wrong,
> > > and while you CAN say it,
> > > I don't think you SHOULD.
> >
> >
> > Don't worry, I not taking anything you say as the
> > intention to start a beef.  I'm just showing you where
> > you're wrong :)
> >
> > Ryan
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