Re: word usage

[Cecil <cecil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Be that as it may, Ryan, there is no need to use that word in this forum.
And if you feel there is a need, then perhaps I am in the wrong place,
because I, too, find it to be terribly offensive regardless of the context
in which it is used.

Cecil


----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i@yahoo.com>
To: <Celtics@igtc.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: word usage


> --- Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
> <snoopy@celticsbeagle.net> wrote:
> > Ryan W. said:
> > My bad. But, I still have the right, and will
> > continue to in the future, to use the word *****.
> > Perhaps on this list is not the best place. But I
> > think it fit Kedrick's situation....there is no
> > reason
> > to get jerked around by O'Brien in the manner that
> > he
> > has been (in and out of games and/or the lineup,
> > with
> > seemingly no reason whatsoever). That said, I will
> > attempt to refrain in the future, but just as Eggy
> > can
> > be whimsical, I can say "******". Plus, the word
> > itself, seeing as it was, is, and, in the future,
> > will
> > be a racial slur, should only be censured when used
> > in
> > such a manner. You must admit I didn't use it in
> > such
> > a way. Furthermore the argument may be made that
> > using it in non-slurring manners actually helps
> > remove
> > the power the word has to hurt. What are your
> > thoughts on that?
> >
> > My first thought is that the subject isn't really
> > appropriate to the list;
> > but the question, having been asked, deserves an
> > answer.
> >
> > I don't know how you INTENDED the use of that word,
> > but it's EFFECT came
> > across in it's most offensive manner.  First off, is
> > the situation of it's
> > use.  We're not discussing "the Black players
> > experience in the NBA", where
> > if you were to point out an example such as what
> > people used to call Bill
> > Russell (in the Garden,no less) while he was
> > playing.  That's historical
> > fact.  Nor is this a review, say of "Tom Sawyer",
> > during a time and place
> > when the word was used freely, if wrongly in
> > hindsight.
> >
> > But you're describing, of all things, playing time
> > for Kedrick Brown; who
> > happens to be one of many players on the team who
> > have dark skin.  To me,
> > that is most definitely NOT a time, place, or
> > situation where use of that
> > word is appropriate.  Then, to me, there is pretty
> > much NO such time.
>
> Let me spell out the usage.  Racism is wrong.  It is
> irrational to discriminate on the basis of skin color.
>  Likewise it is irrational to say that if one plays
> defense very well without providing offensive, then it
> warrants playing time (a la Grant Long), turning
> around later and not playing Kedrick Brown.
>
> Let's put it like this:
>
> Proposition One:  Players who play defense very well
> will get playing time (a paraphrase of what O'Brien
> said earlier this year--and the only reason Grant Long
> gets time).
>
> Proposition Two:  Kedrick Brown plays great defense
> (attested by Paul, Antione, coach O'Brien, me, you,
> Tommy, etc...)
>
> Conclusion:  Kedrick Brown should get playing time.
>
> But Kedrick Brown doesn't see the light of day...and
> when he does, and is praised, he later gets a
> reduction of playing time to about 1-2 meaningless
> minutes.  And so, like racist people (who, as I will
> later address, perhaps would describe an African
> American person as a "******"---which I won't write
> here, because, yes, it is offensive in this usage),
> O'Brien is being either irrational or stupid (or maybe
> his stupidity is a sign of his irrational nature).
>
> And so, back to the analogy which was stated as "What
> does a nigger have to do to get some PT up in this
> motherfucker?" originally, I was commenting on the
> analogous situations of irrational discrimination (one
> being the irrationality of racism, the other the
> irrationality of not playing Kedrick Brown given the
> criterion for getting playing time).  If you didn't
> get it, sorry.  Later on you said :
>
> > Not only that, but the fact that the Celtics as a
> > team have such a long and
> > well-documented history of fighting racism, that the
> > use of the word in
> > describing a Celtics player is mind-boggling.
>
> This is a total misrepresentation.  "Nigger" as a
> word, concept, or idea was used in part of a larger
> description concerning irrationality (as I've already
> pointed out).  It was *not* used to describe a
> Celtic's player.  Come on, Snoop...before seeing
> something and immediately correlating racist intent,
> please check out the usage.  Anything came be used for
> beneficial or improper means, including the word
> "nigger", and one must look past the mere
> instantiation of the word to discover and judge its
> application.
>
> > Having said that, I can't stop you from saying what
> > you want, even if I
> > disagree, even if I find it offensive.  But if you
> > do continue to do so,
> > then I may have to exercise my freedoms and not
> > listen to you any
> > longer.  I'm not trying to start a fight here, and I
> > have no personal beef
> > with you.  But I believe you were flat-out wrong,
> > and while you CAN say it,
> > I don't think you SHOULD.
>
>
> Don't worry, I not taking anything you say as the
> intention to start a beef.  I'm just showing you where
> you're wrong :)
>
> Ryan
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