Re: Walker stinks.....period.

[Ryan Lee <rlee_at_channing@yahoo.com>]

> But that's not really the issue. The issue is the
> ability to create
> your shot against NBA level talent. There are very
> few college players
> that can do that. That's Antoine's primary advantage
> over the other
> players on our roster. For all of his flaws in terms
> of actually
> finishing shots Antoine is quite good and spinning
> around his man or
> breaking his man down off the dribble.
> 
That is the issue Noah.  You just said Walker draws
defenders and breaks people down on the dribble. 
Common sense says that someone will be wide open to
take the uncontested shot.  Now instead of driving to
the basket and getting 1) the ball stolen, 2) blocked
on his shot attempt, or 3) bricking a forced shot,
Toine can simply pass it out to an open shooter.  My
argument is that all the people who have made the
league have the ability to make open shots be it a 3
pointer or a 5 footer.  Creating a shot has nothing to
do with the argument.  How many players on Philly or
say the Lakers can create their own shots besides the
one or two superstars they have?
Shaq and Kobe can create their own shots as can
Iverson, Snow, and to some extent Mutombo.  The rest
pretty much catch and release the ball.  It seems to
me that you want the entire Celt team to be able to
create their own shots.  How realistic is that?  The
truth of the matter is that you only need two
dominating players who can score at will and kick the
ball out.  Let's look at other teams with only two or
fewer stars.  The Detroit Piston Bad Boys come to
mind.  Besides Isaiah and Dumars, who else could
create their own shot?  Last time I checked Laimbeer
and Rodman weren't tearing it up in the paint.  And
Vinnie the Microwave Johnson?  As great a shooter he
was, he wouldn't go on any hot shooting streaks if
Isaiah and Dumars didn't draw entire defenses on them.
 How about the first Houston championship team that
literally had only one player who could draw away
defenders, Olajuwon.  Casell could somewhat create his
own offense but it was primarily Hakeem.  That's 4
spot up shooters they had on that team (Kenny Smith,
Horry,Thorpe, and whatever stiff they had on the
bench).  They won the championship with only one
dominating player.  And how did they win, with great
passing and good shooting.  Now I'm not saying that
the c's are as good a shooting team as that Rocket
team but I'm sure if every other player (besides
Pierce) got more opportunities, the Celtics would have
a more potent offense.  Vitaly is automatic with the
15 foot jumper but he barely gets the ball to use it. 

Milt is pretty decent inside the 3 point line but he
gets too few opportunities as well.  I am willing to
bet if Forte will develop into a fine shooter if he is
given the ball more since he was one of the most
dominant shooting guards in the country.  Besides
Toine's endless bricking spree that is plagueing the
team, it could be that Toine is not a good passer off
the dribble.  Most of the assists I see him give are
on the high post or whenever he is stationary.  One
example is that lob pass he throws to Pierce in the
paint for the layup.  

> That's really the key to what makes Antoine special
> on the C's. Aside
> from Pierce we don't have anyone on the team that
> can create their
> shot with same degree of ability. By being the
> center of attention
> Antoine opens up the offense for other players who
> normally wouldn't
> have any offensive opportuinities at all because the
> other team would
> be able to guard them more closely otherwise.

Listen, it's one thing to be able to create a shot,
it's another to be able to hit it.  He is missing
passes to open shooters with a higher percentage shot
than he has and missing offensive rebounds that can
give the C's another chance to make a bucket.  And yes
Antoine does opens up offense for other players IF HE
WOULD PASS THE BALL.  Wow look at all the defenders he
draws, wow look at the brick he just put up.  That's
some way to open up an offense.

> That's not something you can assume. Most of the
> players on the C's
> are unable to create shots on their own. Williams
> and Kenny have some
> ability, but neither of them is even as efficient as
> Antoine.

They're not as efficient as Antoine?  In what? 
Missing shots and turning the ball over?  Maybe if
they took half as many shots as Toine, then they can
show you what they can do.   


> The rest of the Celtics players have yet to show the
> ability to
> manufacture their own offense. You might say that
> this is because they
> are out of their shooting rythm, but from what I've
> seen of the
> celtics players in limited time none of the other
> Celtics has the
> *moves* to get a decent shot. Johnson and Forte
> might be able to in
> the future but right now they seem limited to
> getting their offense
> from the attention paid to Antoine and Pierce.

The "moves" to get a decent shot?  If you're a spot up
shooter like Joe Johnson or Forte, what moves do you
need?  Should they down cartwheels or backflips just
to get Toine to pass them the ball more?


> > I'm hardly apologizing for Walker's faults. I'm
> saying that right now
> Walker is the best we have in a bad situation. If
> the celtics actually
> put the offensive talent around Walker and Pierce so
> that Walker's
> domination of the offense becomes a hindrance to the
> team I'll be
> quicker to criticize. But given the current dearth
> of talent it's hard
> to criticize Walker even in light of his
> deficiencies.
> 
8-21 against the Bulls, 6-29 vs. the Nets, 6-20 vs.
the Cavs is absolutely atrocious.  The sad thing is
that none of these teams are good defensive teams. 
What's Toine gonna do against the upper echelon teams
like Philly, San Antonio, or the Lakers?  I wonder if
the rest of the league has finally realized that Toine
is not a true franchise player.  A power forward who
averages 3 to 4 turnovers a game (what power forward
averages that?  That's usually a point guard thing.),
shoots 40 % from the field, has no low post game (no
turnaround, no hook although he does throw one up
occasionally, and resorts to hooking around the back
to get by a defender (something he probably learned
from Jordan), and jacksup more 3's than anybody in the
league but doesn't come close to the top 50 in 3 pt
percentage.  Yeah I guess that's a pretty good
indicator that Toine is not for real.

R
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