Kindly take me off your mailing list
-----Original Message-----
From: Celtics-Digest-Owner@igtc.com
[mailto:Celtics-Digest-Owner@igtc.com]
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 3:53 PM
To: Celtics-Digest@igtc.com
Subject: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest V8 #14
The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest
Monday, January 8 2001 Volume 08 : Number 014
In this issue:
Check out "spt_escape1.jpg"
Pierce
Another Change
Poll
Well, if it's true...
So it's over
Re: bye Rick.
Re: It's not Pitino's fault
Sad 4 years
Dignity
Bird Watching...
Walker Did Pitino In says Bulpett
Clueless Celtic Executives Speak
Re: Walker Did Pitino In says Bulpett
Dr. Jack Ramsey
RE: Walker Did Pitino In says Bulpett
NBA propaganda
RE: Dr. Jack Ramsey
Re: NBA propaganda
Re: It's not Pitino's fault
RE: Dr. Jack Ramsey
RE: Dr. Jack Ramsey
Strickland
RE: Dr. Jack Ramsey
RE: Dr. Jack Ramsey
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:49:49 EST
From: JBMetzEA@AOL.com
Subject: Check out "spt_escape1.jpg"
Click Here: <A
HREF="http://a1636.g.akamai.net/7/1636/797/e95a08f42f9c51/graphics.boston.com/
globe/images/daily/07/spt_escape1.jpg">spt_escape1.jpg</A>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 19:10:57 -0500
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@usit.net>
Subject: Pierce
Paul Pierce says that he loved Rick P as a person and a coach. It will
be ironic if he leaves now because P is gone. P also has forfeited the
rest of his contract. So, it sounds like he quit and was not fired. P
also says that he wants to stay in the pro game, but will probably go
back to college.
If this report is true, I think the fact he would forfeit the rest of
his contract speaks very well of P and his integrity.
Oh well, my Gamecocks just beat the Gators on a last second shot. At
least that is looking up!
- --
R. Bentz Kirby
bocelts@usit.net
http://www.public.usit.net/bocelts
http://www.egroups.com/group/Christianlit
http://www.egroups.com/group/voodoochile
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 18:35:16 -0600
From: "Starke R. Farrell, LMSW" <sfarrell@tsixroads.com>
Subject: Another Change
Well, it looks as though even the great Rick Pitino can't get blood from
a turnip. The all time great franchise has consisted of 2 future
big-time players in Pierce and Walker and then a bunch of role players,
at best for the last few years. I think Rick did the best anyone could
do as a coach. I also think he reached a level of at least mediocrity
as GM by getting Stith and Herren for disgruntled/non-productive
players. I am and have been a Pitino apologist. I make no apologies
for that. I do think that noone else would have done any better over
the last 4 years. I, too, am disappointed by the results. I. also had
grand expectations.
As for the next coach- We are most likely lottery bound until we
find a legitimate inside presence. We should give former Celtic great
DJ a chance at the helm. We should allow him low expectations until
Larry Bird buys the team and brings in some players. Like Dorine
mentioned, we need an owner to commit to spending the money on what we
need.
ps Does anyone else still wonder what this team would've been like
if we brought in an NBA best Pippen to build around?
Starke
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 14:09:36 -0800
From: Bob George <bgp76@pacbell.net>
Subject: Poll
In addition to my article, check out my new poll on Pitino.
http://www.bossports.com/celtics/
Bob George
http://www.bossports.com
http://patriots.rivals.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 17:21:41 -0500
From: stephen beauregard <sb@maine.rr.com>
Subject: Well, if it's true...
Then it is better now then at the end of the season, preparing for
drafts, etc.
http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2001/0107/1000118.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 19:12:07 EST
From: Celtic4Hire@AOL.com
Subject: So it's over
So it's over. As we gaze back as the Pitino era, it didn't seem like a match
from the beginning. Pitino seemed to have buyer's remorse after the ping pong
balls didn't fall the way we had hoped and we didn't get Tim Duncan. Someone
put it best when they said that we got Pitino because we may NOT get Tim
Duncan. However, maybe that is the only way it would have worked....I don't
like putting Jim O'Brien in as the interim coach. He is a longtime Pitino
disciple and it is doubtful on whether he would change anything. Therefore,
Pitino quitting now doesn't change anything other than taking him off the
hotseat. However, I am still going to hope that Moiso, Palacio and Blount
will see a significant increase in minutes now that we can know look more to
the longterm future rather than short term. That is the best thing that
Pitino's leaving now may do...I do feel bad for Pitino simply because he does
seem like a likeable guy and he does seem to take this hard even though has
made a boatload of cash. It seemed like the players liked him. However, from
their tendenacy to continue to repeating the same mistakes, it would seem it
would be best to get a coach who is less likeable personally but will
challenge them individually such as Scott Skiles..
DJessen33.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 23:56:22 -0500
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@usit.net>
Subject: Re: bye Rick.
Being from Columbia, I know X. He had me up for the last home game in
the Gahden. After the game, I asked him why Mason and (I think Oakley
was still there) the Knick forwards would not come inside while he was
in the game, but drove to the hole when he left. He laughed and said
they were "scared" of him as he used to kick their butts in practice.
So, yeah, we need an enforcer like the X-man. But, he would have no
patience we these soft boys who don't play defense. I hope they respond
to the new situation. But, I think it is more the players than it is
Pitino.
Go Celtics.
Simon Kean wrote:
> Whomever it is, the first thing they should do is sign a Xavier
> McDaniel type as an assistant coach, specialising in defense. I
> remember getting to see a couple of Nets practice sessions when X was
> there as a 12th man/Assistant Coach, a couple of years ago. The guy
> was beating the hell out of guys in practice. My kinda guy. Just my 2
> pence.
- --
R. Bentz Kirby
bocelts@usit.net
http://www.public.usit.net/bocelts
http://www.egroups.com/group/Christianlit
http://www.egroups.com/group/voodoochile
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 00:00:14 -0500
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@usit.net>
Subject: Re: It's not Pitino's fault
I think we should require the players we have to play basketball as a
team, or else park their butts on the benck or ir and get somebody with
desire. If they played as as team, we would only need a decent center
(even Luc Longley type) and a good point guard. They need to take
responsibility. Trading for more young players won't do us any good.
John Lyell wrote:
> We really should do what we can to get Walker to Chicago for Brand.
> They are the only team that can make this move that I am aware of. If
> we can get Crawford and Bryce Drew I would be very happy. Brand is an
> old school 4 and would be a perfect fit. Then we get hopefully get rid
> of Anderson and Battie or Potapenko and get a Szczerbiak & Peeler,
> Jerome Williams & John Wallace in Detroit, , James Posey, Wes Person,
> Darvin Ham, Cedric Henderson, Bobby Sura, Gugliotta players that are
> down on the depth charts. Hell, I love Paul but Pierce to get Rahim
> or Bibby I could probably live with that. Although limited I have
> liked what I have seen from Jamal Tinsley.
- --
R. Bentz Kirby
bocelts@usit.net
http://www.public.usit.net/bocelts
http://www.egroups.com/group/Christianlit
http://www.egroups.com/group/voodoochile
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 00:07:22 -0500
From: "Troy Hash" <troyhash@kih.net>
Subject: Sad 4 years
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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I am thrilled that the Pitego nightmare is starting to be over. It =
won't be completely over until we got out from under all these idiotic =
trades, signings and contracts that he has "blessed" us with over the =
next 3-4 years, but at least I don't have to watch him rant & rave on =
the sidelines. No more "its' everybodies fault but mine" excuses. =20
Does anyone know/heard who will be in charge of basketball operations?? =
Chris Wallace?? This is far more important now than who the coach will =
be. No coach is going to right this ship anytime soon, but we =
desperately need someone who has a clue as to personnel/draft decisions.
I have been thinking about the best/happiest days in the last 4 years =
that we as Celtic fans have had. The best 2 times I can think of is =
when the Celtics announced the signing of Rick Pitino to take over and =
the other is the Celtics announcing Rick Pitino as resigning. ???? =
Does this not sum up the sad/pathetic last 4 years?? Kind of sick & =
ironic that the best 2 times is the signing/resigning of the same =
person. Well I have been saying for a long time now it can only get =
better, so far I have been wrong, so maybe this is the turning point. =
We can only hope.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am thrilled that the Pitego nightmare =
is starting=20
to be over. It won't be completely over until we got out from =
under all=20
these idiotic trades, signings and contracts that he has "blessed" us =
with over=20
the next 3-4 years, but at least I don't have to watch him rant & =
rave on=20
the sidelines. No more "its' everybodies fault but mine" =
excuses. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does anyone know/heard who will be in =
charge of=20
basketball operations?? Chris Wallace?? This is far more =
important=20
now than who the coach will be. No coach is going to right this =
ship=20
anytime soon, but we desperately need someone who has a clue as to=20
personnel/draft decisions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have been thinking about the =
best/happiest days=20
in the last 4 years that we as Celtic fans have had. The best 2 =
times I=20
can think of is when the Celtics announced the signing of Rick Pitino to =
take=20
over and the other is the Celtics announcing Rick Pitino as =
resigning. =20
???? Does this not sum up the sad/pathetic last 4 years?? =
Kind of=20
sick & ironic that the best 2 times is the signing/resigning of the =
same=20
person. Well I have been saying for a long time now it can =
only get=20
better, so far I have been wrong, so maybe this is the turning =
point. We=20
can only hope.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 00:06:31 -0500
From: "Richard Quan" <rquan@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Dignity
Hi All,
I know that for the last 3.5 years we all had good reason to be upset with
the antics of Rick Pitino. Let's actually put into perspective the length
of the era of our discontent. He was hired in roughly May. From May 1997
to May 1998, that was the honeymoon capped off by the June draft in which
the team got Paul Pearce. Some would argue that the trouble began with the
Anderson trade. Discontent existed throughout the league up to February
1999 with the shortened season. The Celtics started reasonably fast that
year with Pearce leading the way. Then it went bad. The trouble began with
the trade of the pick for V. That was the trade that would sink the
Celtics. Therefore, from March 1999 to January 2001, Pitino has been the
object of ridicule. Why? He put himself into that position. Now, he will
be bringing himself out of it with some semblance of dignity. Good luck
Rick, you tried too hard.
If Rick can give up so much money, I ask this then: why can't the players do
the same? Why do we have to put up with Anderson, V. Williams, Tony, all
overpayed and underachieving. If Pearce was at the 11 milll or so for 7
years, I'd add him there as well.
Richard Quan
Email: rquan@sympatico.ca (Home)
rquan1@yahoo.com (Email by Phone)
rquan1@hotmail.com (Webmail)
rquan@ipc.on.ca (Work)
Icq: 46718244
Yahoo by Phone: 4167844431
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 23:43:42 -0500
From: Vinny Natale <vnatale@map.com>
Subject: Bird Watching...
Finally read this book over the last week or so. Outstanding! Highly
recommend it to everyone who witnessed any parts of the Bird Celtics era.
I was at the game in the Fleet Center in January 1998 when it was his first
time coming back to Boston with the Pacers. It was also Robert Parrish
Day. I told the person I was with that day that for me Larry Bird was now
the enemy and I was only interested in the current day Celtics that
day. From reading his book, I know that Larry Bird would have totally
agreed with me.
I'd rate the book a 10, A+. It is unbelievable how brutally honest he is
in naming names. I bought the book at Buck A Book in Cambridge last
October for $5.99.
Vinny
vnatale@map.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 06:25:43 -0500
From: Way Of The Ray <wayray@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Walker Did Pitino In says Bulpett
Evil Toine on the rampage....
http://www.bostonherald.com/sport/basketball/bully01082001.htm
Blame Walker for C's failure: Co-captain undermined Pitino
The NBA/by Steve Bulpett
Monday, January 8, 2001
Of all the mistakes Rick Pitino made in his Celtics stay, those on and
around the club believe the largest may have been giving the keys to the
court to Antoine Walker.
In the end, it was Walker's failure to buy completely into the community
concepts of the team that doomed the club at a time when a playoff run
hinges on the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.
The Celtics are less than they should be for several reasons, but the
Walker problem grew more visible with each ill-timed trey he tossed
skyward. He is certainly not the only Celtic to be guilty of poor shot
selection and the like, but the fact the Chosen One was flouting the
requests of the coach undermined the entire process.
The bottom line is that Pitino wanted to coach the Celtics and live the
rest of his life in Boston, and Walker wanted to stay with Celts and
turn this thing around. Now one of them is gone and the other more than
likely will follow. This summer, Walker loses his base-year compensation
baggage that made trading him so difficult. He will be very available.
The two were tied when Pitino cast his lot with Walker, but a steep
price was paid in trying to please the co-captain and extricate his
talent. Walker wanted to show his full game, so Pitino set up an offense
that let him roam from the post and baseline, normal homes for power
forwards. Walker wanted a maximum contract once the new collective
bargaining agreement was in place, and Pitino gave him one. Walker
didn't like it when the coach talked about his weight and conditioning
problems publicly, so Pitino avoided the questions.
Before the New York game Wednesday, Pitino sidestepped a query about
Walker's 3-point shooting (he had gone 1-for-13 from 3-point range in
the previous two games).
It is one thing to cater to a star, but in this case Pitino hurt himself
with the other players because Walker wasn't taking the company cue when
games were on the line in the fourth quarter.
According to one player, things may have crystallized early in the last
quarter of Friday night's loss to Golden State when then-assistant coach
Jim O'Brien glanced to a seated Walker and said, ``Why do you look so
upset? We're going to win this game.''
Walker reportedly replied, ``When am I going to get some touches?''
It was evident to the coaches even before then that players were unhappy
with being pulled from games for transgressions Walker performed
regularly and that it was all having a negative effect on the group. And
in the last two weeks, the problem grew. It is not that the club
dislikes Walker; it's more a matter that it needs him to be on the same
page.
But in his fifth NBA season, Walker has let his demons drive him. His
drives into crowds could be interpreted simply as manifestations of his
competitiveness, but many see it differently.
One prominent NBA coach said this week, ``Antoine should have `Eastern
Conference All-Stars' on the front of his jersey instead of Celtics. Not
that he's going to make the All-Stars, but that's what he's playing
for.''
And last year Tim Hardaway said he truly wants his Chicago friend to
succeed but that it won't happen until he stops being a derriere on the
court.
They are pointed analyses, to be sure, but the fact is no one would be
criticizing Walker if he wasn't capable of greater things. Walker is
better than his present station, but he needs to face certain realities.
It's believable when he says he wants to win. He just has to learn how.
``You can never suit everybody,'' he said last week when asked about
shooting just 41 percent from the floor for the season. ``If we were
20-12 instead of 12-20, it'd be fine. I could shoot 41 percent and it
wouldn't be a problem. Everybody's going to voice their opinion, but I
have to do what's best for myself. I know what I'm capable of doing. I
know what I like to do. I know what my strengths and weaknesses are more
than anybody.''
His next coach may think otherwise.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 06:31:20 -0500
From: Way Of The Ray <wayray@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Clueless Celtic Executives Speak
C's brass hasn't given up
by Steve Bulpett
Monday, January 8, 2001
The question of where the Celtics go from here has a two-part answer.
The second is centered on a summer of opportunity with three potential
first-round draft picks and many trade possibilities.
But Rich Pond, the club's chief operating officer, didn't want to lose
sight of the primary destination last night in the wake of Rick Pitino's
departure as coach and president.
``This should not send a message that we're giving up on the season,''
Pond said. ``We still hope to make the playoffs. And the reason I can
say that without being too foolish is that even after all the losses
recently, we're hardly out of the playoff picture because of the
conference we're in. This is not a case where we're throwing in the
towel and saying, `Better luck next year.'
``It's a lot of work, and it means there's going to have to be a change
in the mindset of the players to finish games off. But I think with Jim
O'Brien there's still a possibility to get there, and we're certainly
going to work toward that goal.''
As to the Celtics chances for improvement, director of player personnel
Leo Papile said yesterday the cupboard is far from bare.
``It's far from hopeless,'' said Papile, on a scouting trip in Utah. ``I
think that this team, even with all the unfortunate things that have
taken place in the first 34 games, anyone who would say this is hopeless
is not in tune to the current state of NBA affairs.
``The first thing you have to realize is that you've got three guys in
(Paul) Pierce, (Tony) Battie and (Antoine) Walker who are young and who
are tied up for a while. Those are three guys who have the ability to be
quality players in this league for a long period of time.
``Then you have the draft. We won't know until May 15 who's in it, but
we know it's going to be a lot more than American college seniors.
Between underage Euros, underclassmen and whatever else - high school
guys, things like that - you'll have a lot of talent available. There's
an abundance of players out there, and we've got to prepare for any and
all. That being the case, the opportunity of having possibly two lottery
picks this year couldn't have come along at a better time for this
franchise.''
As he beats the scouting trail, Papile has specific needs in mind.
``Where I think we're lacking is in team athleticism and speed,'' he
said. ``If we were to enter into a Superstars competition - like they
used to have on ABC - with other NBA teams doing non-basketball events,
we could be among the bottom few. My point is we need an infusion of
speed and athleticism. Rick talked a lot about defensive woes, and I
think a lot of them can be directly attributed to a lack of athleticism
and speed.''
Papile defended some of the contractual situations others have
criticized, saying the club is not handcuffed at all in the marketplace.
``People question the contracts of Tony and Vitaly (Potapenko), but I
can tell you we've had many inquiries on both of them from a variety of
teams,'' Papile said. ``We have to do our work as a team, but if we do
and things fall right, people will see a difference in this team.''
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 10:08:47 -0500
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@usit.net>
Subject: Re: Walker Did Pitino In says Bulpett
I think that from here on down, the article by Bulpett makes the point that
I was trying to make. Someone on the team needs to learn how to win and to
stop playing so selfishly. I believe Walker is the biggest problem. This
seems to underline what I was thinking. But, how do you get someone with an
ego like this to stop and look outside of himself. Either it is impossible,
or that is what has made Phil Jackson a great coach.
> It is one thing to cater to a star, but in this case Pitino hurt himself
> with the other players because Walker wasn't taking the company cue when
> games were on the line in the fourth quarter.
>
> According to one player, things may have crystallized early in the last
> quarter of Friday night's loss to Golden State when then-assistant coach
> Jim O'Brien glanced to a seated Walker and said, ``Why do you look so
> upset? We're going to win this game.''
>
> Walker reportedly replied, ``When am I going to get some touches?''
>
> It was evident to the coaches even before then that players were unhappy
> with being pulled from games for transgressions Walker performed
> regularly and that it was all having a negative effect on the group. And
> in the last two weeks, the problem grew. It is not that the club
> dislikes Walker; it's more a matter that it needs him to be on the same
> page.
>
> But in his fifth NBA season, Walker has let his demons drive him. His
> drives into crowds could be interpreted simply as manifestations of his
> competitiveness, but many see it differently.
>
> One prominent NBA coach said this week, ``Antoine should have `Eastern
> Conference All-Stars' on the front of his jersey instead of Celtics. Not
> that he's going to make the All-Stars, but that's what he's playing
> for.''
>
> And last year Tim Hardaway said he truly wants his Chicago friend to
> succeed but that it won't happen until he stops being a derriere on the
> court.
>
> They are pointed analyses, to be sure, but the fact is no one would be
> criticizing Walker if he wasn't capable of greater things. Walker is
> better than his present station, but he needs to face certain realities.
> It's believable when he says he wants to win. He just has to learn how.
>
> ``You can never suit everybody,'' he said last week when asked about
> shooting just 41 percent from the floor for the season. ``If we were
> 20-12 instead of 12-20, it'd be fine. I could shoot 41 percent and it
> wouldn't be a problem. Everybody's going to voice their opinion, but I
> have to do what's best for myself. I know what I'm capable of doing. I
> know what I like to do. I know what my strengths and weaknesses are more
> than anybody.''
>
> His next coach may think otherwise.
- --
R. Bentz Kirby
bocelts@usit.net
http://www.public.usit.net/bocelts
http://www.egroups.com/group/Christianlit
http://www.egroups.com/group/voodoochile
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 10:18:14 -0500
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@usit.net>
Subject: Dr. Jack Ramsey
This link will lead you to Dr. Jack Ramsey's article on the Celtics'
need to change with Jim O'Brien at the helm. The main thing he says, is
dump the press. But, then he says something about hard work and full
focus by the players. Good luck on that.
http://espn.go.com/nba/s/2001/0107/1000276.html
- --
R. Bentz Kirby
bocelts@usit.net
http://www.public.usit.net/bocelts
http://www.egroups.com/group/Christianlit
http://www.egroups.com/group/voodoochile
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:03:32 -0500
From: Rich Small <rsmall@clarku.edu>
Subject: RE: Walker Did Pitino In says Bulpett
> ``You can never suit everybody,'' he said last week when asked about
> shooting just 41 percent from the floor for the season. ``If we were
> 20-12 instead of 12-20, it'd be fine. I could shoot 41 percent and it
> wouldn't be a problem. Everybody's going to voice their opinion,
>but I have to do what's best for myself.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think this line says it all. Basically he should do what's best for the
team.
>I know what I'm capable of doing. I
> know what I like to do. I know what my strengths and weaknesses are more
> than anybody.''
>
> His next coach may think otherwise.
Hopefully. I really would like Dennis Johnson to get the chance.
Rich,,,
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 10:26:21 -0500
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@usit.net>
Subject: NBA propaganda
The NBA propaganda machine must be able to force NBC, ESPN etc. to put
up the publicity they want. I went to read the ESPN article on the
Clippers win, and the movie clip on the right hand margin is Kobe
dunking on the fast break. I love the way they promote this game.
Maybe that is one reason for the selfhishness of players like Walker.
http://espn.go.com/nba/2001/20010107/recap/laclal.html
- --
R. Bentz Kirby
bocelts@usit.net
http://www.public.usit.net/bocelts
http://www.egroups.com/group/Christianlit
http://www.egroups.com/group/voodoochile
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:11:10 -0500
From: OzerskyJA <OzerskyJA@cmog.org>
Subject: RE: Dr. Jack Ramsey
What's interesting about this is that Dr. Jack happens to be O'Brien's
father in law, so you can be sure they have talked about this. Interesting
to see how "obie" does.
Josh Ozersky
Marketing Communications Specialist
Corning Museum of Glass
> -----Original Message-----
> From: R. Bentz Kirby [SMTP:bocelts@usit.net]
> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 10:18 AM
> To: Celtics Mail List
> Subject: Dr. Jack Ramsey
>
> This link will lead you to Dr. Jack Ramsey's article on the Celtics'
> need to change with Jim O'Brien at the helm. The main thing he says, is
> dump the press. But, then he says something about hard work and full
> focus by the players. Good luck on that.
>
> http://espn.go.com/nba/s/2001/0107/1000276.html
>
> --
> R. Bentz Kirby
> bocelts@usit.net
> http://www.public.usit.net/bocelts
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Christianlit
> http://www.egroups.com/group/voodoochile
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:23:52 -0000
From: "Simon Kean" <simon@jkean.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: NBA propaganda
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@usit.net>
> The NBA propaganda machine must be able to force NBC, ESPN etc. to put
> up the publicity they want. I went to read the ESPN article on the
> Clippers win, and the movie clip on the right hand margin is Kobe
> dunking on the fast break. I love the way they promote this game.
> Maybe that is one reason for the selfhishness of players like Walker.
I'm half-hoping Antoine sees that video of Kobe dunking on the fast break -
he might actually learn how to run a fast break.
Cheers,
Simon
_____________________________________
Ulcerate - dark alternative project
http://mp3.com/ulcerate
http://ulcerate.webjump.com
_____________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:26:33 EST
From: Georgek27@AOL.com
Subject: Re: It's not Pitino's fault
- --part1_2f.f498f5e.278b3629_boundary
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In a message dated 1/7/01 11:48:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, bocelts@usit.net
writes:
> If they played as as team, we would only need a decent center
> (even Luc Longley type) and a good point guard. They need to take
> responsibility. Trading for more young players won't do us any good.
>
>
After watching part of the Vancouver game yesterday I'd say that if we could
get Bibby by also taking Reeves we should do it. Reeves is no worse than VP
and probably better.
VP, Anderson + Denver pick for Bibby & Reeves.
George
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/7/01 11:48:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, bocelts@usit.net <BR>writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">If they played as as team, we would only need a decent center
<BR>(even Luc Longley type) and a good point guard. They need to take
<BR>responsibility. Trading for more young players won't do us any good.
<BR>
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>After watching part of the Vancouver game yesterday I'd say that if we could <BR>get Bibby by also taking Reeves we should do it. Reeves is no worse than VP <BR>and probably better.
<BR>
<BR>VP, Anderson + Denver pick for Bibby & Reeves.
<BR>
<BR>George</FONT></HTML>
- --part1_2f.f498f5e.278b3629_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: 08 Jan 2001 11:04:16 EST
From: Kestutis.Kveraga@dartmouth.edu (Kestutis Kveraga)
Subject: RE: Dr. Jack Ramsey
- --- You wrote:
What's interesting about this is that Dr. Jack happens to be O'Brien's
father in law, so you can be sure they have talked about this. Interesting
to see how "obie" does.
- --- end of quote ---
I guess he could go one of two ways - continue with the Pitino philosophy, or
try to carve out his own approach. The benefit of doing the former is that he
might again have a job as Pitino's right-hand man wherever his old boss lands
next year. The problem with it is, of course, that the system's been proven
beyond reasonable doubt not to work in the present situation. Not that I needed
someone else to tell me what I can see for myself, but when Hall of Famers like
Jack Ramsay, Heinsohn, and Cousy all agree that the Pitino's system doesn't
work in the NBA, even the most hardcore Pitino apologists ought to take notice.
The Ramsay article seems to indicate that O'Brien instead might try his (or his
father-in-law's ) approach, which should yield better results if the players
apply themselves at all (which, as is the norm, they might just to prove they
weren't the problem). If the Celtics do better and Gaston keeps the franchise,
who knows, O'Brien might even be retained as the head man. He'd come pretty
cheap, too. Someone on this list wrote a while ago that O'Brien ran the Dayton
program into the ground. But maybe he's just the opposite of Pitino in that he
lacks the skills to succeed in college coaching (e.g., recruiting), but has a
no-nonsense approach that would work in the pros. The Globe reports that
Fortson and Barros spoke highly of him after being traded, while at the same
time being critical of Pitino's approach. I guess we'll see soon enough, but
I'm just trying to stir up some hope - I don't want to be watching 48
meaningless games this season...
Kestas
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 11:22:13 -0500
From: "Berry, Mark S" <berrym@BATTELLE.ORG>
Subject: RE: Dr. Jack Ramsey
O'Brien did run the U. of Dayton program into the ground. Had a great first
season with Don Donoher's players, then it was a swift, steady decline. He
played Pitino's style--pressing, trapping, running--but couldn't recruit the
players to make it work. Everyone at UD will tell you the O'Brien era was an
unmitigated disaster. He's no more than a stop-gap this season. He knows it
and the players know it. You think they stopped listening to Pitino? Wait
till they run roughshod over poor Jim O'Brien. There may be a brief spike in
intensity, but it will be followed by a total collapse.
The question I'm waiting to see addressed is Chris Wallace's role. Is he
going to remain GM? Will he run the basketball operation? Is Richard Pond
running the basketball operation (uh oh)?
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:06:07 -0500
From: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@usit.net>
Subject: Strickland
Well, being home sick has allowed me to skim the CNN and ESPN sites. It
seems that Rod Strickland picked up his third DUI arrest in three years
last night. He has a conviction from 1998, an acquittal last year and
this arrest. A brief article is at:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/news/2001/01/08/strickland_dui_ap/
- --
R. Bentz Kirby
bocelts@usit.net
http://www.public.usit.net/bocelts
http://www.egroups.com/group/Christianlit
http://www.egroups.com/group/voodoochile
------------------------------
Date: 08 Jan 2001 12:27:55 EST
From: Kestutis.Kveraga@dartmouth.edu (Kestutis Kveraga)
Subject: RE: Dr. Jack Ramsey
- --- You wrote:
O'Brien did run the U. of Dayton program into the ground. Had a great first
season with Don Donoher's players, then it was a swift, steady decline. He
played Pitino's style--pressing, trapping, running--but couldn't recruit the
players to make it work. Everyone at UD will tell you the O'Brien era was an
unmitigated disaster. He's no more than a stop-gap this season. He knows it
and the players know it. You think they stopped listening to Pitino? Wait
till they run roughshod over poor Jim O'Brien. There may be a brief spike in
intensity, but it will be followed by a total collapse.
- --- end of quote ---
Well, let's hope Obie learned something from the disasters at Dayton and with
the Celtics. He should have a smaller ego, and be less wedded to these ideas,
than Pitino. As for players tuning him out, I think players tune coaches out
for a reason (unless they're J.R.Rider). Players want to win too, even if it is
only to make the All-Star team, and if the basketball philosophy makes sense to
them and seems to work, they'll follow it. Do you think they want to be at the
wrong end of 30-point blowouts for the rest of the season? Even Antoine can't
be stupid enough not to have noticed the fact that solid play on *winning*
teams gets you the coaches' selection to the All-Star team (see Dale Davis),
not gaudy numbers on a lousy team. (Speaking of Walker, if he doesn't change
his attitude now, he'll be gone by next season if the Celtics' "brain trust"
has any neurons left at all.)
- --- You wrote:
The question I'm waiting to see addressed is Chris Wallace's role. Is he
going to remain GM? Will he run the basketball operation? Is Richard Pond
running the basketball operation (uh oh)?
- --- end of quote ---
I think he'll stay on for the rest of the season - he's under contract through
then anyway - but he may be held on a short leash (no major decisions). It's
unlikely that they'll find anyone worth hiring before the end of the season,
and the smart thing to do (assuming Gaston is not selling the team) is to wait
and see how things go with Pitino out of the equation. Maybe Obie is a
brilliant pro coach and Wallace a brilliant GM when they're allowed to make
their own decisions, and maybe Walker loses his shortsighted "gotta do what's
best for me" attitude...Yeah right...
Kestas
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:53:20 -0900
From: damekmo@teleport.com
Subject: RE: Dr. Jack Ramsey
>The question I'm waiting to see addressed is Chris Wallace's role. Is he
>going to remain GM? Will he run the basketball operation? Is Richard Pond
>running the basketball operation (uh oh)?
>
>Mark
Mark...if Chris Wallace has had anything to do with getting any of the
players on this team then he needs to go also. I hope to God somebody has
been looking for a new gm because they need to make some moves. I've been
going back and forth on whether to keep the "core" of this team together,
whatever that is, but you know what...screw it, trade them all including
Walker and Pierce. Unfortunately I think Walker really needs a change of
scenery, for his own good.
Paul M.
------------------------------
End of The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest V8 #14
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