Re: Magic game

[Hironaka <j.hironaka@unesco.org>]

Alexander Wang wrote:

> But would the personnel he used last
> year make up a good defensive team if he just switched systems? I don't
> believe that at all. I look at the front line that we were considering:
> Potapenko, Fortson, Walker. And check off: Length: no. Athleticism: no.
> Shotblocking: no. Experience: no. I don't care if you let them play
> man-to-man or headless chicken, they're going to be terrible.
>
> So is the system beyond criticism? No. Do I think it's the "gimmick" that's
> holding back our players from being a good defensive team? No.

Alex makes as cogent a defense of the Pitino system's problems 1998-2000 as can be
made IMO, and it is also backed by facts.  I think the inexperience argument is
the most compelling one, although my first casual retort is that Pitino has (or
has had) key UK alum who have experienced his system in some cases for
half-a-dozen seasons or more and still can't seem to get it right or make it work.

I guess two fair questions raised in this debate are 1) will more athleticism make
it finally work at the NBA level? and 2) would it also work better with more
experienced NBA players? Those seem to be Alex' litmus test as I understand it,
although he raises other questions too.

The first question is open to our interpretation of facts. Pitino didn't need
shotblockers or even great system athletes at every position to make it work in
college (and boy did it ever work in college). He also was able to win with
inexperienced underclassmen. So it becomes a good question and one worth raising
whether more funky chicken additions in the Moiso/Carr/Brown mode is heading us
still deeper down a hopeless/failed path or will bring us to the light at the end
of the tunnel. We all, including me, hope it is the second.

In the name of showering millions of dollars on totally unproven, underproductive
players (Battie and Eurobattie) based on how well they jumped and ran in a
workout, we may have also moved from being one of the best rebounding teams last
year to one of the most atrocious in Celtics history. That's part of the
tradeoff.  Signing two Chicago Bulls rejects (that's what they really are, despite
that they only asked for the minimum legal wage) shouldn't make up for the fact
that our latest headless chicken solution/lottery pick risks not making the 12-man
roster even though he's fully healthy. (He will make it though. I honestly don't
think Pitino would survive the media criticism otherwise. Pitino will probably beg
Waltah to take the demotion for the team and then wait for a minor player injury
to bring him back aboard.)

Back to my point, I do think that there are many teams with no length, no
athleticism and no shotblocking etc. that play better defense than Boston. Is it
coaching? Is it luck? If it is mostly about player experience, then would those
guys run our headless chicken any better than Pitino-veterans like Walker and
McCarty do?

I think many can relate to the viewpoint of Heinsohn, simply because he did in
fact rebuild a team just as Pitino is trying to do under tremendous scrutiny. Did
he have any length, athleticism, shotblocking etc? No.  Heinsohn looks back and
recalls that he had 6-8 Cowens, 6-8 Silas, 6-5 Havlicek and 6-7 Nelson and so
maybe he wonders "what's the deal, can't a Battie, Potapenko, Walker, Griffin
rotation practice post-up moves and play better accountable defense?" I also say
"why not?" Jim Hill's post on accountability was awesome in this regard.

Fine, I'm actually talking about what happened a long time ago (banners 12 and 13
to be precise) in a "different era", but have you ever looked at Abdul-Jabarr's
7-4 height or his stats in those years? The Eastern Conference was stacked with
Alonzo Mourning type performers, with guys like Willis Reed and one rookie of the
year type center after another entering the league (Cowens, Unseld, Walton,
Lanier).

Also sure the amazing 1974 Celtics were relative veterans, but how would they all
do playing the "poultry in motion" offense? I'd say they are "going to be
terrible" frankly. I've seen Silas on film (the triple OT game) and that guy is
the least coordinated or quick player you can imagine. I'm thinking he reminds me
of Fortson.  But one should bear in mind that Fortson wasn't on the floor often
with the other "terribles" (Potapenko and Walker), or for that matter on the floor
at all for the bulk of last season, although he's without question become a kind
of "Exhibit A" excuse for Pitino apologists.

But the weak defenders argument may still be much more valid in the modern NBA
where players are in fact bigger and stronger, but to play the devil's advocate
further it can also be treated as a classic "grass-is-greener" statement. You look
around the contemporary NBA landscape and there really are some playoff teams with
frontcourt rotations that just don't strike me as any longer, more athletic etc.
than the Potapenko, Antoine and Griffin/Battie rotation or that of the1974-76
Celtics.

If you add up the defensive +/- scores of the Sacramento frontline--much less
their entire starting lineup in general--it really comes down to a judgement call
how much better they really are than us. Granted Webber is probably an awesome
defender (not against Walker, that's for sure) but I think Divac and Corliss
Williamson would stink if they played the Boston Chicken system. The Sacramento
team last year held opponents to .452 shooting in a tough conference.

The near-MVP Chris Webber is the product of blossomed experience, but c'mon there
had to be a role from NBA coaching along the way, just as Walker is very much a
thoughtful, ambitious guy and a product of Poultrino's system. I believe there are
coaches who would rather get a young, highly competitive Walker (think of all he
is capable of doing) than a young, flaky, unfocused Webber. Coaching matters in
player development.

Closer to home, the Knicks with or without Ewing had the third best defense in the
league at .422. Where's the length and athleticism with Larry Johnson and their
other 6-5 forwards? It's at least a big judgement call. So naturally let's chalk
it up to experience, but how would THEY do in the headless chicken? Who knows?
What we do know is that the Celtics had the 9th ranked offense last year, despite
a middling fast break/transition game. They would have competed for their 17th
championship last year if they could hold teams to .422 with their HOF center
injured. They were one of the best rebounding teams in the league.

There are other teams out there that didn't have spectacularly more athletic or
veteran frontlines than the Celtics. Cleveland had the 8th best defense in
opposition FG%. Do any names jump out on their frontline that would have been an
immediate upgrade for us defensively? Conversely, would it surprise anyone if
Walker or Potapenko started on that team ahead of the "Grain Man" and Ringo
DeClerq? Again, its at least debatable. Milwaukee is another good example. And
there is also Chicago (.456)?  Utah, Phoenix or Indiana are all far better
defensive teams despite having serious defensive weaknesses at several positions
at least as great as what Pitino could use as an excuse.

The only reason this might read as a rant or a flame is because I don't have time
to proofread and tone it down. Again, I think Alex made cogent points that I can't
help thinking are just as likely to be as valid as my own opinions, and certainly
are just as much backed by facts.

Joe

p.s. Also I did not mean to lump Kestas (and me) with Dan. What I meant to say was
that fans might feel entitled to use the preseason as a period of optimism, rather
than having to hear people like me and Dan jump the gun with a bunch of pompous
negativity. I remember all through the 80s and 90s that Spring Training for the
Boston Red Sox was always a time for my unbridled hopes and a belief that we might
have the next twenty-game winner or homerun champs in Sam Horn, Carlos Quintana,
Phil Plantier, Jeff Suppan and so forth. Same feeling with the Celtics (remember
those late-Bird, early-Reggie years when you just sort of knew they would come up
an inch short yet you believed like crazy they could win?). So I don't necessarily
want to hear right now about how the system is already guaranteed to fail and that
what we as fans are actually doing right now is merely waiting out the final
months of the Poultrino/ThanksDad era before the next rebuilding phase can even
freaking begin. That's how I happen to feel right now (like I said, the last two
months of last season was the most deflating, disillusioning experience in my time
as a Celtics fan), but don't worry I am so often wrong in my predictions (it's
kind of incredible actually) and I really live too far away from the action to
have that trustworthy an opinion about this subject. I really thought the Celtics
would open some serious cans of whup-ass down that final 16-game stretch last
year. I hate Poultrino for that. The headless chickens finally "came home to
roast", so to speak. :-(

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