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Re: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest V4 #171
At 01:53 AM 5/31/97 +0000, you wrote:CAN YOU SAY DOMINIQUE WILKINS?
>
>The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest
> Friday, May 30 1997 Volume 04 : Number 171
>
>
>
>In this issue:
>
> My Theory
> Point Guard
> Trade
> Athletes and the Law
> Wesley $3million?
> Re: Athletes and the Law
> Re: Wesley $3million?
> Re: Point Guard
> Re: Wesley $3million?
> Re: Wesley $3million?
> SHAWN KEMP ASKS FOR TRADE!
> Drafting big men...
> Rick Pitino / Ron Mercer
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 20:01:43 -0400
>From: alexcap@odyssee.net (Alex Caporicci)
>Subject: My Theory
>
>ok.. we've been talking a lot about this
>
>#2 and Stackhouse
>
>for
>
>#3, #6 and Radja
>
>
>I think the reason the 76ers would be interested in this is that they want
>Mercer, not Battie. Mercer would be available with the 3rd pick if the 76ers
>make this trade and with the 6th pick they can grab a big man like Foyle or
>Cato. Thats why I think we shouldn't make this deal if the reason for it is
>that we want Battie, I think he'll be available for #3.. Then you gotta look at
>
>#6 and Radja for Stackhouse
>
>Is a Billups, McGrady, possibly Daniels or Foyle, worth a Stackhouse? I'd
>say probably, but, does Pitino want to win soon <This year>, or is he
>willing to give up a lot in talent (Radja, #6) for Stackhouse...
>
>
>
>
>
>Alex Caporicci
>alexcap@odyssee.net
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:03:05 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Michael Joseph Byrnes <mbyrnes@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>Subject: Point Guard
>
>JLyell wrote:
>
>> It also looks like resigning Wesley may
>> not happen so do we have to take Billups or Antonio Daniels ? Who else is
>> going to play point Barros ? Brown ? I don't think so.
>
>Why not?
>
>Michael Byrnes
>mbyrnes@stanford.edu
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:09:57 -0700
>From: "JLyell" <jlyell@concentric.net>
>Subject: Trade
>
>I read somewhere that Golden State was not happy with Sprewell or Smith &
>offered either Philly(probably San Antonio) both Joe Smith and Sprewell. I
>would be willing to entertain say a 3, 6 & Radja and Barros or Williams
>for Sprewell, Smith & their 8. I don't know what Dunleavy thinks about
>Sprewell, but Smith is probably gone next year.
>
>Sprewell would give us the proven young explosive star & Smith, who has not
>lived up to his draft position, a great young forward under the right
>tutelage. Can you imagine a front line of Walker, Smith & Baker next year
>? We could add a Daniels, McGrady, Knight or Cato at 8.
>
>GS could get Mercer & Van Horn, Thomas, Foyle, or Daniels to go with Radja
>& Williams
>
>
>I don't know if it would fly but why lose Smith without getting something
>in return ?
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:07:54 -0800
>From: Nault <rnault@ptialaska.net>
>Subject: Athletes and the Law
>
>This doesn't really have a lot to do with the list. But I was wondering,
>why do you guys think there has been so much criminal activity among
>athletes? Especially that of woman beating? I have heard of a ton of
>cases about some athlete hitting his girlfriend/wife recently and it really
>is quite alarming. Do you guys think that it has always been like this or
>is this some kind of new "trend" among professional athletes?
>
>
>From Nando.Net
>
>GREECE, N.Y. (May 29, 1997 - 14:25 EST) -- New York Knicks rookie John
>Wallace turned himself in over the weekend
>after his girlfriend told police he punched her in the face and choked her
>during an argument over one of their two children.
>
>The 23-year-old former Syracuse star had been scheduled to appear in court
>in this Rochester suburb Thursday, but the
>hearing was adjourned until Wednesday.
>
>Police had sought Wallace after Michelle Bolger, 21, called police. When he
>showed up at a police station, accompanied by a
>lawyer, he was charged with harassment, which carries a maximum penalty of
>15 days in jail. He was released on his own
>recognizance.
>
>According to police, Wallace went to Bolger's home Friday night intending
>to take out his son, John III, who had celebrated
>his fourth birthday the day before.
>
>The couple quarreled, and Bolger maintains Wallace threw her into a wall,
>punched her right cheek with his fist, threw her to
>the bed and choked her with his hand. He then left the house alone.
>
>Bolger and Wallace first dated in high school and continued seeing each
>other through Wallace's college career.
>
>Last August, Wallace was charged with disorderly conduct and violation of
>the Rochester city noise ordinance for playing his
>car stereo too loud and failing to follow police officers' instructions.
>
>Wallace agreed to stay out of trouble for six months, and a city judge
>dropped the charges after that.
>
>A native of Rochester, Wallace led Syracuse to the 1996 NCAA finals, with
>the Orangemen losing to Kentucky. He was a
>first-round draft choice of the Knicks last June.
>
>Tim
>
>Nault
>rnault@ptialaska.net
>
>Visit the PatriotsPage at:
>http://www.ptialaska.net/~rnault/PatriotsPage.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:43:52 -0400
>From: "Jan Crocker" <jan@netgworld.com>
>Subject: Wesley $3million?
>
>The local paper the Herald is reporting that David Wesley might be willing
>to sign a one year 3million (market value) contract while the C's try to
>unload other long term contracts. Wesley's agent Catapano said that he's
>wide open on this and would like to get something done before July 1. Stay
>tuned.
>JC
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:00:50 -0500
>From: Jonathan Haigh <jhaigh@landdesign.com>
>Subject: Re: Athletes and the Law
>
>Nault wrote:
>>
>> This doesn't really have a lot to do with the list. But I was wondering,
>> why do you guys think there has been so much criminal activity among
>> athletes? Especially that of woman beating? I have heard of a ton of
>> cases about some athlete hitting his girlfriend/wife recently and it really
>> is quite alarming. Do you guys think that it has always been like this or
>> is this some kind of new "trend" among professional athletes?
>
>
>
>What's next - Network announcers cought up in S&M scandals???
>
>oh.
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:24:12 -0800
>From: Tim Nault <rnault@ptialaska.net>
>Subject: Re: Wesley $3million?
>
>Jan Crocker wrote:
>>
>> The local paper the Herald is reporting that David Wesley might be willing
>> to sign a one year 3million (market value) contract while the C's try to
>> unload other long term contracts. Wesley's agent Catapano said that he's
>> wide open on this and would like to get something done before July 1. Stay
>> tuned.
>> JC
>
>
>I say we pay 2.5 million for him, no more. Sure the guy had good stats
>and he is a good player, but we simply don't have the room under the cap
>to sign him! Besides if we were to sign him I would prefer that it was
>some kind of long-term deal. I hate these freaking one year contracts.
>The NBA should make a rule that players signed to contracts should have
>to sign for at least 3 years. Sure there could be some exceptions like
>ten-day contracts and non-drafted rookies, but for the most part I think
>this would be a good idea.
>
>Tim
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 11:21:39 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Michael Joseph Byrnes <mbyrnes@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Point Guard
>
>On Fri, 30 May 1997, Jim McMaster wrote:
>
>> In message <Pine.GSO.3.96.970529190133.1556C-100000@elaine11.Stanford.EDU>,
>> Mic
>> hael Joseph Byrnes said:
>> >
>> > JLyell wrote:
>> >
>> > > It also looks like resigning Wesley may
>> > > not happen so do we have to take Billups or Antonio Daniels ? Who
else is
>> > > going to play point Barros ? Brown ? I don't think so.
>> >
>> > Why not?
>> >
>> Because neither one can play the point, silly...they are both miserable at
>> it. It takes more than lack of height to play point guard.
>
>You're exaggerating. In the past, Brown has played the point on better
>C's teams than the one we will see next year. Granted, he is not as
>"true" point guard, but he has played decently there in the past. Barros
>has also played the point before, though he is more of a shooter.
>
>Neither is ideally suited to the point, of course. But, both are still
>decent players with some of the skills needed to be a point guard. And I
>am sure that Pitino can get more out of both of them than ML Carr or Chris
>Ford was able to.
>
>And, how badly does this team really need to have a true point guard? If
>the C's could steal Gary Payton from the Sonics, it would not make them a
>championship team.
>
>For now, why waste resources (either draft picks or cap room) on a point
>guard when we already have two players making a lot of money who should be
>able to do an adequate job for one year.
>
>If Daniels or Billups is the best player availabl when the C's draft, then
>I would draft either one. If there are better players available, then I
>would draft the better player. There is no sense filling a short term
>need if it is to the long term detriment of the team.
>
>Michael Byrnes
>mbyrnes@stanford.edu
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 13:25:04 -0600
>From: Jim McMaster <mcmaster@sweng.stortek.com>
>Subject: Re: Wesley $3million?
>
>In message <338E728C.7116@ptialaska.net>, Tim Nault said:
>> Jan Crocker wrote:
>> >
>> > The local paper the Herald is reporting that David Wesley might be willing
>> > to sign a one year 3million (market value) contract while the C's try to
>> > unload other long term contracts. Wesley's agent Catapano said that he's
>> > wide open on this and would like to get something done before July 1. Stay
>> > tuned.
>> > JC
>>
>>
>> I say we pay 2.5 million for him, no more. Sure the guy had good stats
>> and he is a good player, but we simply don't have the room under the cap
>> to sign him! Besides if we were to sign him I would prefer that it was
>> some kind of long-term deal. I hate these freaking one year contracts.
>> The NBA should make a rule that players signed to contracts should have
>> to sign for at least 3 years. Sure there could be some exceptions like
>> ten-day contracts and non-drafted rookies, but for the most part I think
>> this would be a good idea.
>>
>> Tim
>
>On the contrary...I Wesley is really willing to do this, I would take him up
>on it in a flash! He would be doing the Celtics a tremendous favor. He
>would stay in Boston, without killing next year's cap flexibility. When his
>contract ran out in 1998, the Celtics would be able to use his cap room to go
>after a free agent, then use the Larry Bird exception to resign Wesley long
>term. The extra $500,000 would be a small premium to pay for Wesley's giving
>up the security of a long-term deal.
>
>In this day of "me me me" athletes, this is a very team-oriented gesture by
>Wesley. He should be applauded, and the Celtics should fall all over
>themselves to take him up on it.
>- --
>Jim McMaster
>mailto:mcmaster@sweng.stortek.com
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 15:37:19 -0400
>From: Kerry Kee <kkee@highground.com>
>Subject: Re: Wesley $3million?
>
>At 01:25 PM 5/30/97 -0600, you wrote:
>>In message <338E728C.7116@ptialaska.net>, Tim Nault said:
>>> Jan Crocker wrote:
>>> >
>>> > The local paper the Herald is reporting that David Wesley might be willing
>>> > to sign a one year 3million (market value) contract while the C's try to
>>> > unload other long term contracts. Wesley's agent Catapano said that he's
>>> > wide open on this and would like to get something done before July 1. Stay
>>> > tuned.
>>> > JC
>>>
>>>
>>> I say we pay 2.5 million for him, no more. Sure the guy had good stats
>>> and he is a good player, but we simply don't have the room under the cap
>>> to sign him! Besides if we were to sign him I would prefer that it was
>>> some kind of long-term deal. I hate these freaking one year contracts.
>>> The NBA should make a rule that players signed to contracts should have
>>> to sign for at least 3 years. Sure there could be some exceptions like
>>> ten-day contracts and non-drafted rookies, but for the most part I think
>>> this would be a good idea.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>
>>On the contrary...I Wesley is really willing to do this, I would take him up
>>on it in a flash! He would be doing the Celtics a tremendous favor. He
>>would stay in Boston, without killing next year's cap flexibility. When his
>>contract ran out in 1998, the Celtics would be able to use his cap room to go
>>after a free agent, then use the Larry Bird exception to resign Wesley long
>>term. The extra $500,000 would be a small premium to pay for Wesley's giving
>>up the security of a long-term deal.
>>
>>In this day of "me me me" athletes, this is a very team-oriented gesture by
>>Wesley. He should be applauded, and the Celtics should fall all over
>>themselves to take him up on it.
>>--
>>Jim McMaster
>>mailto:mcmaster@sweng.stortek.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>I agree, this would be a great team-oriented move on Wesley's part.
>As long as he fits into Pitino's plans, it would be a no-brainer.
>
>Anyone know if Dee Brown's (and others) contract could be restructured
>to improve the salary cap situation? I seem to remember past stars
>converting some of their salary to "deferred" status to open up cap room
>to sign other free agents. Is that still within the rules?
>
>- - KK
>- -----------------------------------------------------
>Kerry M. Kee kkee@highground.com
>HighGround Systems (508)263-5588 x144
>1300 Mass. Ave, Suite 205 (508)263-5565 (fax)
>Boxboro, MA 01719-2203
>- -----------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 May 97 16:25:46 -0700
>From: Tony Pinto <bagaco@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: SHAWN KEMP ASKS FOR TRADE!
>
>news:5mn4la$dl1@netnews.upenn.edu
>joyner@cattell.psych.upenn.edu (Russell Joyner) wrote:
>> Well, Shawn Kemp has finally asked the Sonics to trade him. According
>>to a Seattle newspaper, Kemp had his agent Tony Dutt, request a trade just
>>days after the Sonics lost Game 7 to Houston in the WC Semifinals. They
>>said that Kemp's request is based on finances. He made $3 million this
>>season and has six years left on his current contract. Kemp wants to
>>be traded to a team under the cap that can redo his deal. My question
>>is this. Would the Celtics have any interest in Kemp?
>>
>>Russ J.
>>U of PA
>>
>>
>
>
>- --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>GO CELTICS!!!!! GO BRUINS!!!! GO RED SOX!!!! GO BRUINS!!!! GO CELTICS!!!!
>GO RED SOX!!!!! GO PATRIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>***Member of the Reggie Lewis Club***
>***Member of the Larry Bird Club*** ***Member of the John
>Valentin***
>***Member of the Antione Walker Club*** ***Member of the Tim
>Naerhing***
>***Member of the Anson Carter Club***
> ***Member of the Cammeron Mann Club***
>***Member of the Steve Heinze Club***
>***Member of the Ted Donato Club***
>***Member of the Jozef Stumpel Club***
>***Member of the Mo Vaughn Club***
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 19:24:01 -0500
>From: markp@edu15.coe.ufl.edu (mark piotrowski)
>Subject: Drafting big men...
>
>hey y'all,
>
>found this on the OnHoops site (a great NBA site -- www.onhoops.com) which
>may help in the battie/mercer/van horne @ #3 and foyle/daniels/etc @ #6
>debate.
>
>enjoy!
>
>P.S. I'm looking for Mercer and trade the #6 down and unload Dee/Dana/or Dino.
>NOT VAN HORNE!! I see another Michael Smith
>
>
> The Legend of Bigfoot
>
>
>I am a huge Timberwolves fan, which means I can finally wake from a seven
>year depression that came every winter. Yeah, its cold up here, but watching
>Doug West as the closest thing to a franchise player, and seeing our entire
>pre-McHale draft history traded, it just makes the winter seem that much
>colder. But now there is hope for this young team, with deft drafting, and
>sly trade maneuvers, and some luck in free agency. The T'Wolves are still
>lacking in two areas: 27th in 3pt shooting (CN: Young Aussie Shane Heal
>might be able to fix that, he was 100% (2 of 2) on threes in the
>playoffs...), and 27th in rebounding. The obvious analysis here is to find a
>big man who can play defense and has enough game on the low block to open up
>the wing. But this is the Golden trap that has plagued so many general
>managers on draft day over the years.
>
>The truth is, the mythical seven footer who can give you defense, draw
>double teams, and clear the glass, only comes along once every four or five
>years. But the age old axiom "You can't teach size," has brought ugly game
>to so many NBA franchises. The list of promising big men turned draft day
>busts is almost endless. Perhaps the most famous is Sam Bowie, drafted ahead
>of the greatest player to ever live. But names like Felton Spencer, Luc
>Longley, Joe Kliene, Jon Koncak, and Benoit Benjamin were all lottery picks
>who never averaged in double digits in points or rebounds (CN: Big Ben
>averaged 14.0 points and 10.3 boards with Seattle and the Clippers in
>1990-91). Many of these guys have been paid millions of dollars to go out
>and foul the legitimate big men in the game. And the list of other first
>rounders who failed to pan out after being labeled as "projects" is
>painfully long. Hence the Acie Earl Ugliest Skills Golden Chuck.
>
>The general managers of the NBA are so in love with size, that they so often
>forget to check whether these guys actually have any skillz. My beloved
>Timberwolves are responsible for two of those lottery picks listed above,
>and the total number of seven foot stiffs that have appeared on their roster
>explains why this team's record was 152-422 over its first seven seasons.
>Names like Longley, Spencer, Brad Sellers, Randy Bruer, Stacey King, Sean
>Rooks, Cherokee Parks and Stojko Vrankovic have littered the T-wolves'
>roster, and doomed this team to many more chances at lottery busts.
>
>Now McHale changed basketball when he drafted a high school senior with the
>number five selection. Garnett has established himself as the prototype
>swing man for the next century: a seven footer who moves without the ball,
>hits the medium range jumper, and rejects weak shot attempts like a center.
>The move to bring Tommy G over from Golden State flushed the remains of the
>worst trade disaster in recent memory (Donyell Marshall, ahead of Juwan
>Howard!!) This quickly proved valuable as not only can he shoot and grab
>rebounds, but Tommy gets you steals, blocks, and provides leadership. And
>Marbury may prove in time to be the best point gaurd in his draft, with
>passing and scoring, who was brought in after a wonderfully lop-sided
>draft-day trade.
>
>But perhaps the big key to the change in the Timberwolves fortunes, and the
>best example of McHale's managerial talent, is not in their big three names,
>but the decision to bench the seven foot stiff, and play five basketball
>players. Back in November, having seen enough bad play by the 7-2 Vrankovic,
>Flip Saunders and Kevin McHale, while they both believed in post presence,
>decided to start an undersized, 6-10 journeyman at center. Now Dean Garrett
>didn't exactly light the city on fire with rim-rocking dunks, finger
>wagging, or highlight reel baseline moves, Deano did just one thing well: he
>played hoop. Dean Garrett will never be an all-star, and he will probably
>never get a shoe contract, but he has game (CN: We Love DG22). He showed
>this most admirably in the playoffs, when matched with Hakeem the Dream, he
>was able to duel him to a virtual draw, giving his team a chance to compete.
>
>I think it is fair to say that height is not everything. If you need another
>example, Sir Charles is still one of the best offensive rebounders in the
>game, and he's under 6-6 with high heels on. And Michael Jordan is averaging
>more boards in the playoffs than all of the Bulls' centers combined, (CN:
>and the Bulls are 8-1).
>
>So why do so many stiffs get drafted? I think the obvious reason is because
>players like the Dream, Ewing, the Admiral, and Shaq have been so dominant.
>But all four of these guys were picked number one. If the big man has game,
>then every scout in America knows it, which is why Tim Duncan is a
>no-brainer for the number one pick next month. But to take a chance on a
>project big man in hopes that he will solve a teams problems is a foolish
>prospect. So, before you boo your team for taking Chauncey Billups over Tony
>Battie or Adonal Foyle, just remember that Big Men may look like trees, but
>they do not grow on them.
>
> -Chris Manrodt
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 20:47:41 -0500
>From: gh18@juno.com (Gregory Hurst)
>Subject: Rick Pitino / Ron Mercer
>
>Does Rick Pitino know something that we don`t about Mercer. If Mercer is
>a legitimate third pick in the draft and Pitino does not draft him and
>instead takes Billups, and Billups becomes a flop, do we need to take
>away Pitino`s power of President? I hope Rick knows what he is doing if
>he does not draft Mercer, and Mercer becomes a star. I think Mercer
>would make a special effort to score as many points as possible against
>his old coach. This years draft is so important that the Celtics make
>the right decision. Then I think, who would have a better judgement of
>Mercer`s talent as Pitino. I hope he makes the right decision.
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest V4 #171
>*****************************************************
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