Re: Rap; This is no social crisis?

["Mark R. Leaman" <mleaman@sccoast.net>]

> Oh yeah?  Try walking around helpless in 82 (Fucking Rent's wouldn't allow
> me to go) *AND* 89!

Kevin:

I don't know why there's all this grief over missing them in `82. That was
the tour to miss, IMHO. Workmanlike Who...no inspiration in the live shows.
I intentionally passed on that one.
In 1989, it wasn't about inspiration but rather performance. Pete wasn't
even playing an electric guitar. It was a celebration, that's all.

> I'm still absolutely floored that Crap, whoops, I mean Rap has lasted.
> I don't get that.

Nor do I, but I didn't see Disco coming either.

> This has been stated several times on this list w.r.t. grunge and
> Nirvana in particular, but I never saw any of this "poor economy"

Rich:

Nonetheless, it existed and wasn't regional...rather there were a few
regions which were spared the full brunt. But you must take it in
context...this was a recession which followed the Reagan recession. Instead
of the promised prosperity (still waiting for that "trickle down" 20 years
later), we got more bad news...which lasted until Clinton won the election
on "the economy, stupid." Something which wouldn't have worked if the bad
economy was short-lived or merely regional.
This is a matter of historic fact, no matter how "some" might attempt to
deny or distort it.
Society certainly is reflected in music...whether it's the Mod lifestyle or
the Swinging `60's or the Hippie ethic or anti-war movement or drug culture
or the urban plight. But to me, Nirvana was never as important as Pearl Jam,
and PJ was not a Punk band...no, there were (are) a Rock band. Influenced by
The Who, Neil Young and Led Zeppelin (and no Punk band was ever influenced
by Zep).
The negative sound of the actual music of Grunge is more influenced by Black
Sabbath and the other Metal bands which tuned down to get that turgid,
depressive sound. This is still out there...ever heard any Type O Negative?
Any Death Metal bands?
The lyrics were very reflective of the 80's/early 90's national mood. I
remember it too, and live about as far from Seattle as you can get and still
be in the US. Plenty of sunshine here, BTW...it's a beach resort. The 80's
were a very negative time, unless you were rich...because if you weren't,
you were getting screwed and you knew it. You know, sort of like what's
happening again now. Remember, Grunge bands grew up in the 80's, so their
music reflects the malaise of the time. As surely as the positivity of the
60's bands reflected the prosperity of the post WWII period.

> records. Anyone know for sure?

Brian:

I can't see any major Punk influence in any band other than in Nirvana.
Soundgarden, Alice In Chains, Stone Temple Pilots, Mother Love Bone...none
of these sound very Punk to me.
Nirvana is one of the most overrated bands in Rock history, IMHO.


"Our nation must come together to unite."
       George "pearls of wisdom" Bush

               Cheers                 ML