LAL vinyl, tecnomudconceptmania

[Jefferson Davis <jdworks@execpc.com>]

>Anyone have any idea on the value of Live at Leeds vinyl with all 13
>inserts?
>
>I only have seven inserts but I would like to know it is worthwhile
>getting them all........

  Jay:   i live in Madison, Wisconsin and have seen copies in used record
stores here for between twenty-five and forty dollars, depending on the
condition. If you would care to have me grab you one, e-mail me and we'll
arrange it. That goes for anyone else here, too, but Jay gets first dibs.

>Incorrect. He did have a story...does have a story...but the songs were
>never meant to tell it. They were to be in the background, to add to but
>not tell the story. According to Pete himself. Some did end up being more
>of the story than he may have intended, like Going Mobile and Behind Blue
>Eyes, but he said at the time Lifehouse was NOT to be like TOMMY where the
>songs were the story.

   Mark: Perhaps you're right on that. A movie soundtrack, however well
connected to the film, doesn't constitute a concept album, so i suppose
"Lifehouse" isn't one as such. i had always thought it would be, in its
final state, but it sounds like it wouldn't. 

>Couldn't have said it better myself, even if I had given Paul a bit and
>said Ebony And Ivory was his ultimate statement...even so, it's an
>"everyman" statement rather than an intellectual concept. I mean, racial
>equality...DUH!

   Thanks... it appears i scored with that "Silly Love Songs" quote. What
you say above... "Ebony and Ivory" is a great statement (even if it is a
little obvious), and it may be a better song, but it's not really about Paul
and his music or his philosophy. i think we agree here if i read you right.

>> Overproduced complicated bubblegum frat rock remains such no matter how
>>cool Brian Wilson is. And he is.

>It's not overproduced...it's perfectly produced, as the stereo version
>shows clearly. You may not like it, as is your right, but that doesn't mean
>it's not a definitive Rock album...it is. Few had more influence, for
>instance. It might be the single most unisexual Rock album, too (which is
>not the same as nonsexual or bisexual). The feelings expressed on PS are as
>universal as it gets. Much like In My Room, an earlier Wilson classic. Even
>Pete was unable to divorce himself from a sexual viewpoint (few people ever
>are).

> Any album which inspired SGT PEPPERS
>cannot be classified as "overrated."

   Oh, it is very influential, no question. And it's themes are more
universal than, say, "Be True To Your School" or "(Giddy Up) 409". i was
saying i personally never cared for the Beach Boys in general, and to me
"Pet Sounds"( however influential, universal, unisexual, or even definitive
it is) doesn't sound much different than their other stuff TO ME. <--- this
is important. i know most people consider it their masterpiece. Me, i kind
of like "In My Room" and a couple other songs, but in general don't like
them that much. TO ME, this is the kind of music the Who wanted to smash
over the head with a guitar. My opinion, and i could be wrong, but there 'tis.

  ( This is about "Exile on Main Street" by the Stones):

>You've got it, only it's not ONLY their Blues roots but their roots
>entirely. Country, Gospel, and so on. I do not believe they planned to do
>it as a concept, but that's how it turned out. Or ALMOST a concept album,
>as I said before. Sonically, not by any storyline. 

   Okay, but we're crossing into very, very murky waters here if we say this
qualifies as a concept record. i would urge you to concede it is definitely NOT.
  Whatever it is, it is no more a concept album than "Stripped", where the
unifying theme would be that all the songs are acoustic-only. Or John
Fogerty's recent album (i think its called "Blue Moon Swamp"?) where he has
said he sat down with the intent of writing songs that could have been CCR
songs, in that style. Or how about this one, with reference to "I do not
believe they planned to do it as a concept, but that's how it turned out":
Metallica's "Master of Puppets" album. Every songs on it is about
manipulation of some kind. In case you're unfamiliar with the album, every
song on it is about how authority figures manipulate their followers:
there's songs about religious leaders ("Leper Messiah"), military leaders
("Disposable Heroes"), Doctors ("Welcome Home (Sanitarium)"), etc. etc. When
the band was asked about this, they said in no way was it a concept. They
wrote a bunch of songs in a hurry, named the album after their favorite one,
that's all there was to it.  You can argue with these (i certainly do) but
my point is these are examples of albums whose songs are connected by sound
or idea, either intentionally or not, but they are not concept albums. The
definition does not hold i guess...

>A hard definition is: an album with songs which further or compliment a
>planned unifying theme.

   Does Fogerty's album count? "Stripped"? "Master of Puppets" doesn't, as
it wasn't planned. 

    Hmmmm. i think we need qualifiers for the phrase "concept album". Take
these for a test drive, amend or correct or delete  as you see fit:

Sonically Conceptual Album:  Where a specific style of music is explored by
an artist who usually is associated with a different style. Examples:"Exile"
Stones, Clapton's "From The Cradle", Joe Jackson's "Jumpin' Jive" (all
swing), Steve Miller's Jazz record

Thematically Conceptual Album: Where an idea is explored throughout all or
most of an album's lyrics. Examples: "Master of Puppets" Metallica, "Captain
Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy" Elton John, "Sell Out",  

Rock Opera Conceptual Album: Music and lyrics used to tell a story.
Examples: "Tommy", "Quadrophenia", "Kilroy Was Here" Styx, "The Elder" Kiss,
"Operation: Mindcrime" Queensryche, "Psychoderelict"

    Okay, that's all i can think of off the cuff. i'm sure there are many
holes to be shot in these definitions and examples. Shoot away, that's what
they're here for. i'll think more on this and write again soon.
   BTW, i love this conceptual debate. It may all be irrelevent quibbling
over terms, but  i've always believed in defining the rules and terms for
myself. And when i can't seem to, or find exceptions, i try to rework them,
like we're doing. i thought that the Rock Opera and Concept Album
distinction was good enough, but it appears i have some more thinking to do
as to what actually constitutes a Concept Album.

                               peace&anarchy,  jeffree

"Born in a war. Birthday punching."  -pbt "5:15"