Re: The Who as an influence

[David & Rachael <arizona@itis.com>]

WalterFeng@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-04-28 18:27:35 EDT, mleaman@sccoast.net writes:
> 
> << Now, on to Wally...
> 
> My gosh. I didn't think you were going to write me a book. You must have a
> lot of free time on your hands.
> 
>  > It was an Eddie Cochran song first, was it not?
> 
> > It was, but listen to the Cochran version then the Who version, and then
>  tell me which Blue Cheer was doing.
> 
> Maybe The Who was doing the Blue Cheer version? The Who version was
> apparently more popular, but that doesn't discount that other bands,
> including Blue Cheer may have done it that way first, then The Who liked it
> and copied it.
> 
> > Oh, every Rock musician who heard it (which would be most of them, I
>  think). Look at music before MG (Chuck Berry/Blues) even by The
>  "fabulous and original" Beatles, and then see how different it was after
>  December 1965 (or perhaps it would be more accurate to put it even a bit
>  earlier, since surely Lennon/McCartney had seen The Who perform before
>  MG was released).
> 
> Do you really believe that all the popular bands of the time heard The Who
> performing in these small clubs and decided to change their styles based on
> that? Wishfull thinking perhaps, but not very likely.
> 
> > As for Beatles music itself, as any Beach Boys fan of the time could
>  tell you, it wasn't quite as original as it may appear while watching
>  retrospective Beatles films/video.
> 
> The Beatles had 4 albums out by the end of 1964 (that's prior to the 1965
> release of My Generation). What exactly is your point?
> 
> > Have you heard the Marquee Club "import" from 1964? You can hear the
>  difference in The Who's music that early (as opposed to everyone
>  else's), even when they're jamming off a Kinks riff.
> 
> They actually sounded like other bands of the period, who were trying to do
> the same thing. What bands are you comparing them to?
> 
> > The proof is there for anyyone to hear. It might take some younger
>  people a bit of research for the dates, but that's time well spent
>  anyway. The musical environment around The Who's career is very
>  important when discussing their music. It can tell one, for instance,
>  that while WHO ARE YOU wasn't one of the band's stellar releases, it was
>  still superior to the majority of what was released that
>  year...especially if you focus on their peers.
> 
> Now you are talking about quality of the music. What does this have to do
> with influences? I asked you to back up what you were saying, and you are
> triying to change the subject. Try harder.
> 
> >  Musicians, of course. The casual record-buying public are a poor way to
>  measure good music or influence...or do you feel that Snoop Doggy Dog,
>  Kiss, Madonna, Oasis (and so on) are important, influential acts? Do you
>  credit every band who've outsold The Who with more influence? I doubt
>  it, and even if you do I certainly don't. Record sales mean nothing but
>  how much money a performer has made or how popular they are. The same is
>  true with concert sales.
> 
> Record sales are only the point where they matter in reaching the intended
> audiences. You make it sound that the Who influenced everyone in the world
> with My Generation and my point was that most of the people you claim in
> influenced, probably never heard it back then since it did so poorly in the
> charts and wasn't exactly popular. People can't be influenced by things that
> they can't here. Understand?
> 
> >BTW, it was QUAD the influenced me more than any other Who music, not
>  MG. Unless you count LAL securing The Who as my favorite band...
> 
> I'm glad you were influenced. But this has nothing to do with the original
> discussion. Unless you want to consider Quadrophenia as a double album and
> you decided to write a double post as a poor attempt to get your point
> across.
> 
> > I'd have to say that The Who influenced The Beatles...Paul has admitted
>  as much, albeit just lately. If ANY Beatles album influenced The Who, it
>  could have been REVOLVER (arguably their best album). Maybe.
> 
> The word "influenced" can be very wide or narrow in the scope of it's
> intended use. The Beatles were pretty much doing there own thing, and almost
> done with it by the time The Who started making real noise. What exactly did
> Paul admit to? Have you had personal conversations with Paul McCartney and
> Pete Townshend? Or, are these all speculations, assumptions and fantasies on
> you part? Anyone can take a news clip, a blurb or part of an interview out of
> context. Apparently, this is the basis for your theories. Certainly not on
> any factual material, since you haven't quoted any.
> 
> > There again, Harrison's Taxman sounds remarkably like a Who song...don't
> you
>  think?
> 
> Yes, I think. I hope you do too. However, Taxman sounds nothing like a Who
> song.
> 
> >Apparently Paul Weller thought so.
> 
> There you go. You mentioned a guy who's a big Who fan and even covered a few
> Who songs. The Eurythimics (who began as the Tourists) were also influenced
> by The Who, can you extrapolate any Who in their music?
> 
> > Not exactly the sort of influence I was thinking about.
> 
> Hard to know exactly what you were thinking about, since you haven't
> expressed yourself very well, or backed up your theories with anything but
> speculation and wishful thinking.
> 
> > I meant the music itself.
> 
> The title which you created says "The Who as an influence", if you sincerely
> meant that, you should have changed the title, or been specific as to your
> types of influences. However, that being said, The Beatles had influenced The
> Who, as well as most of the other British bands at the time, by being
> successful with their own compositions. Ultimately, Pete Townshend's song
> writing was of much greater importance to the band's success, than how well
> they can do an R&B cover. You should get your thoughts a bit more straight
> before you pick and chose what it is that you mean to make a point about and
> also have an ability to defend the same.
> 
> > As for the influence you're citing here, The Beatles
>  opened the door for a lot of bands, sure...but The Who smashed through
>  the doorframe and surrounding wall when they came through, you know.
>  They invented Punk (Anyway Anyhow Anywhere, MG) and Heavy Metal (so
>  would Zep even existed if not for The Who?). Did The Beatles do this? Or
>  anyone else, for that matter?
> 
> You make the bold assumption that without The Who, these other styles of rock
> music would not exist. While the Beatles may not have developed these styles,
> certainly other bands of the time (i.e. Cream) may have. Bands also have the
> ability to develop without the influence of another band before or parallel
> to them. Led Zep may have done their thing with or without The Who. After
> you've spoken to Townshend and Plant, can you let us know what they have to
> say on the matter?
> 
> > Look, I like The Beatles. They were a fine band, if somewhat less
>  substantial than others (the song My Generation says more in three
>  minutes than The Beatles said on their first four albums). I like Zep,
>  too, or did until PRESENCE was released. But I think both of them have
>  gotten much of the credit that should have gone to The Who. TANJ (There
>  Ain't No Justice)!
> 
> It's awfully noble of you to be looking out for the band's welfare and
> reputation, but I think they've done fine all this time on their own. At the
> same time, your assumptions are purely speculative and just because you
> believe them to be true, doesn't make them so. If and when you decide to
> offer a reply, please be prepared to quote actually sources, rather than
> simple opinion so as we don't waste anyone's time further than we already
> have.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> *Wally*

Just a note about influence... I don't believe that there was any
particular heirarchy of influence on the music scene in the 1960's. It
is my recollection that although some public rivalries were maintained
at the time, that musicians were playing with each other (Welcome the
Rolling Stones Good Guys) and having a great time improving their craft. 

In short, they influenced each other; The Byrds were influenced by The
Beatles who were influenced by Bob Dylan; etc., and all that in reverse,
with the possible exception of Nancy Sinatra's immortal "These Boots Are
Made For Walkin'" AND "Goin' Back To Jackson"...

Don't mean to raise a fuss, but I want to put that era in perspective {I
remember much of it; fondly}

     david
     {my name is Ivar; I used to be an engine driver}