Re: My Generation/Who vs Zep/Pagey/Brainwashed

[Ian Derby <iderby19@us.net>]

> I haven't seen any disagreement with this, just where the song came from.
> Seeing ghosts, are we?
I thought you arguing about "first rock song" questions a couple weeks 
ago, before I entered this argument.  Maybe I am talking with ghosts, I 
just finished talking to Jimi Hendrix and sent him to Heaven level #5.  
He feels so much better.  (I hope you know what I'm talking about, it has 
to do with a certain radio show)  


> 
> Ragtime is documented as early as the mid-1880s, my friend. And I quote:
> "Next to the black-oriented songs of Stephen Foster, in the mid-19th Century
> Ragtime was the most published music from a black tradition until the 1940s."
> You said yourself that Blues was first used as a term in the early 1900s...I
> wasn't going to argue that (since it served my purpose). Now you claim that
> The Blues were around in the 1800s. Make up your mind. But surely you aren't
> going to claim that Blues created Ragtime now!

But isn't ragtime also of a classical european influence? I never 
thought of ragtime as purely a black-oriented genre. It may have been 
performed primarily by black artists, however these are artists who 
received an education of music from other sources.  You also might 
consider the fact that ragtime may have been the most published because 
it was generally excepted by not only blacks but whites as well.  

It's the missing link that was needed for jazz to begin.  As Scott has already 
informed, I NEVER said the blues wasn't a term used after 1900, I've 
always believed the blues went back way before 1900.  I have heard for 
myself recordings of the blues from the 1890's.  Very crude mind you, but 
it's there.

> "By the beginning of the 20th Century, there were significant Blues singers
> who were influencial in the Blues and most other forms."
> The book: The Rock And Roll Story by Charles T. Brown, published 1983 by
> Prentice-Hall.
> What you are talking about as "Blues" in the 1800s was black folk music, not
> the yet in the form we now call Blues (as I've pointed out to you before).
> And that was what we were talking about here...the form.

Well Mark, what am I supposed to say about this?  You almost helped me 
out.  Just because the quote says "influential in the blues" doesn't mean 
it's not blues music.  It would be understood that the blues music as we 
now know would have to grow, just like jazz has grown, and especially 
rock music.  What you're quoting is the same as Elvis' "That's Alright 
Mama" was an influence on Nirvana.  Though Elvis was considered 
"rockabilly", he is always considered in a rock oriented discussion. The 
departure from the norm with those infamous Sun sessions is definately 
something that could be called rock and roll.  

> 
> >Since when was the blues considered popular, until the mid 60's?  
> 
> What do you want now, sales figures? I think you're nit-picking every thing
> I say. What I meant by "popular" was that major bands began to play
> them...you know, like Bessie Smith and Louie Armstrong.

But you were talking about "commercial" a few posts back.  I was trying 
to identify (thanks to historical perspective) true origins.  

> 
> >And of course, why question the patience of this list when you LOVE to
> write >100 line posts in response?   
> 
> Ha! And you don't.
> I make no apologies, though...I'm a writer and I write until I've said what
> I think needs to be said.


Never said I didn't, it was you who felt concern for the ones who might 
hate us and place our addresses in kill files.  The truth is you're a 
stubborn person who needs to have the last word, and I like that.

> 
> "Townshend assembled the music on his tape recorders. The resulting demo
> 'sounded like...Jimmy Reed at ten years old suffering from nervous
> indigestion.' Townshend claimed. 
> The only person who saw much in it was Chris Stamp, who was convinced My
> Generation was the song to take The Who over the top. And it was basically
> Stamp's enthusiasm that made Lambert encourage Townshend to do another demo
> of the number. 'Make it beefier,' Lambert suggested.
> So Townshend went back and turned his walking Blues into a chunky, chugging
> Blues (Note: Of course I disagree with that definition, but we're talking
> about how many demos were made and why I knew what the first one sounded
> different).

Come on Mark, you're quoting an author and even he describes the second 
demo in relation to the blues.  Personally I forgot all about that 
segment in BIGO, I only seem to remember Keith's car accident in 1970 and 
Roger knocking out Pete in '73 (gossip gossip gossip).  My source is a 
collection of rock journalism I read at the library which included Pete's 
rundown song by song of MBBAB in Rolling Stone 1972.  But anyway I never 
doubted the MG was two demos, but it's true sources of influence I do.