Re: Mardi Gras (No Who Content)

Mark, Re:

> >No, I have only accused you of talking about Christian beliefs mindlessly.
> >Read the previous notes again.
> 
> Nothing mindless about it. This is another personal insult, which I don't
> see why you're stooping to.

Insult?  No, I do not see any insult here.  I said that I had *accused* you of
doing something...

> Except, I suppose, as a result of running out of real material.

The only thing I am running out of is your response to my points.  Since you
ignore or deny everything I write, this debate has become very useless...

> Sorry right back atcha, but while Pentacost may be very important in Europe
> (or perhaps just Germany), as I said to you in Molly Wee's (and have
> confirmed, BTW) Pentacost is just not a big one over here.

Mark, don't talk about Christian matters if you don't have a clue.  Go and ask
believers, preachers, theologians, etc., then come back and tell me what they
said.  Pentecost is a very important holiday all over the Christian world.

> Bernd, you're seeing provocation when there is none. I described the MG
> accurately. That's it.

Ah, yes?  So it was just some net disturbance that brought the infamous `tied
to Xtian beliefs' passage into your original note?  Come on, don't lie...

> Bernd, the topic is (and I quote): Mardi Gras (No Who Content) That "really
> is the topic."

That's the headline, no longer the topic.  The topic is `Is Mardi Gras tied to
Christian beliefs or not?'  With a thick subtitle `Sorry, still no Who
content'.

> Some people are bound to hate it, but I can't walk on eggs afraid to post
> anything because someone might not like it.

Hm.  You could show a little more respect to other people's feelings instead of
just trying to denounce their religion.  As some other lister said,

   } Finding something (under First Amendment protection) to say or do simply
   } to piss somebody off doesn't make you a martyr, it makes you an asshole. 

And as I said:  Your provocations against Christians suck.

> BTW, in case you didn't notice...all this began as was a simple explanation
> of the MG, which was requested.

Right.

> It was YOU that turned it into all of this.

Nope.  I objected to one single sentence and you made a monster of a debate out
of it.  Perhaps I should simply ignore everything that is off-topic when
discussing with you, as weird as your off-topic thoughts might be.  It is
really annoying to see you and me write lots of lines that totally miss the
original point.

> I guess it really, really bothers you that I'm not a huge fan of Xtianity,
> but...there it is: I'm not.

It doesn't bother me at all, and I already accepted your position long time
ago.  What I am not willing to accept, however, is your trying to provocate
Christians on this list over and over again.  This is the Who list, in case you
haven't notice...

> I guess you think I should be ashamed or something, but the truth is that I'm
> not.

No, please don't be ashamed.  Just be a little more sensitive when it comes to
personal topics like religion.

> >> Of course, personal attacks always come when the attacker runs out of
> >> valid arguments.
> >
> >Interesting.  Now look back to the quotes above and tell me who was the
> >first one to attack personally?
> 
> Quote me one single time when you were personally attacked.

Ma-ark, read what I write before jumping to conclusions...

> It boils down to this:
> Mardi Gras starts and ends on Xtian "days." Fact.

Hm.  In most places of the world it ends on Ash Wednesday which is a Christian
holiday.  Fact.  Starting time depends on the country and city it is celebrated
in.

> It began as a Pagen holiday and has incorporated some Xtianity in it. Fact.

No.  Mardi Gras is still as Pagan as it ever was.  There is nothing Christian
about it.  And stating this is the only reason why I even started this debate.

> Xtian rites are based on Xtian beliefs. Fact, and a damned obvious one too.

Wrong.  Some Christian rites are connected with Christian beliefs while many
are not.  Do I really need to remind you of your own observation that Christmas
and Easter feature some completely un-Christian rites?

> Now, let's just let it drop...OK?

I am not really willing to have some provocation on your side have the last
word in this ill-famous thread, but I bow to the majority of listers here who
are as sick of this useless exchange as I am.  I let our moderators D13, RT,
and WF decide whether I shall reply again in case this thing should continue...
:-)

Cheers,

Bernd