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Re: Mardi Gras (No Who Content)



>My point is that Mardi Gras is not tied to Christian *beliefs* as you said.  I
>repeated that point several times and tried to explain, but you don't seem to
>listen.  Instead, you are making a monster of this discussion where a simple
>excuse or clarification on your side could end it.

Bernd:

Again, any Xtian observance or rite comes from the beliefs and is spread by
the church. Therefore...
You're the one who seems to want to deny this, but it's painfully obvious.

>No, I have only accused you of talking about Christian beliefs mindlessly.
>Read the previous notes again.

Nothing mindless about it. This is another personal insult, which I don't
see why you're stooping to. Except, I suppose, as a result of running out of
real material.

>> Because, my dear Bernd, what a thing is known as or for defines its meaning
>> in the end. Surely you're aware of that. Mislabeling something is always
>> dangerous.
>
>Another nice attempt to misunderstand my point.  If you had quoted the whole
>paragraph of mine instead of only two sentences, you would have seen that I was
>talking about your arguing based on rumours and assumptions.  It's not notions
>we are talking about here, it's the statements behind them.

You're assuming what may be behind them, when in actuality the statements
are just what they appear to be. And I stand by them.
BTW, no rumors have been involved in this discussion. Where did that come from?
Also, of course I cut some of the script. Otherwise, these notes would be
mind-numbingly long and longer each time. Don't assume the worst.

>Sorry, this isn't news, this is wrong.  Christmas, Easter, and Pentecost are
>the three major holidays of Christianity.  Period.  Pentecost might be less
>popular, but not less important.  Personally, I like it most among the three.

Sorry right back atcha, but while Pentacost may be very important in Europe
(or perhaps just Germany), as I said to you in Molly Wee's (and have
confirmed, BTW) Pentacost is just not a big one over here. As you say:
period. You want to argue that further, talk to a preacher.

>Fine.  But then you should also have better things to talk about than
>Christianity over and over again.  Your continuous provocation sucks.

Bernd, you're seeing provocation when there is none. I described the MG
accurately. That's it.

>> Well, I never said I wasn't arrogant. I am, and am willing to admit it. I've
>> learned to live with it.
>
>Then live with it silently and on your own.  Others might not be interested in
>your personal problems.

Actually, my being arrogant is not a problem at all. Not for me. If it is
for you, oh well. As they say around here: "Them's the grits."
See, here is another case when the humor of the statement didn't carry.
Maybe now that you've met me you'll understand the tongue-in-cheek nature of
(some of) my notes.

>> You want to argue Mardi Gras with me, then go to one first.
>
>I don't want to argue Mardi Gras itself.  Again you are trying to distract from
>what really is the topic.  And, yes, I know at least German carnival traditions
>from my own experience, but this is not very important here.

Bernd, the topic is (and I quote): Mardi Gras (No Who Content) That "really
is the topic."
And while you may know German Carnival, the MG is different.

>> Unless you're now indicating that I have a history of misunderstanding on
>> this list.
>
>You have a history of turning simple discussions into long and incoherent
>sequences of arguments by simply ignoring what others really write and mean.

Ha ha ha! I got a good laugh out of that one. When people tell me they enjoy
my posts all of the time. I'm sure some don't as well, but that the way the
ball bounces. You can't please all of the people and so on...like Pete
Townshend (if I dare compare), I do what I do and let the chips fall. Some
people are bound to hate it, but I can't walk on eggs afraid to post
anything because someone might not like it. I won't live my life in fear. As
Hunter Thompson said: I "stride across the tundra."
BTW, in case you didn't notice...all this began as was a simple explanation
of the MG, which was requested. It was YOU that turned it into all of this.
I was done with it. So don't do something and then try to accuse me of doing it.
But you are extremely touchy about Xtianity and jumped down my throat when I
posted the (accurate, I might add) details of the celebration. I guess it
really, really bothers you that I'm not a huge fan of Xtianity, but...there
it is: I'm not. I think the negatives outweigh the positive by a
considerable margin. And I'm not shy about admitting it. I guess you think I
should be ashamed or something, but the truth is that I'm not. Nor should I be.

>> Of course, personal attacks always come when the attacker runs out of valid
>> arguments.
>
>Interesting.  Now look back to the quotes above and tell me who was the first
>one to attack personally?

Quote me one single time when you were personally attacked. Sorry, I don't
do that (horrible Rock bands excluded). I'm not that kinda guy. If I don't
like someone to that degree, I tend to ignore them.

It boils down to this:
Mardi Gras starts and ends on Xtian "days." Fact.
It began as a Pagen holiday and has incorporated some Xtianity in it. Fact.
Xtian rites are based on Xtian beliefs. Fact, and a damned obvious one too.
You can argue till you're blue in the face and it won't change a single fact.
Now, let's just let it drop...OK?



                   Cheers                   ML

"I think you should keep on playing Rock as long as you have an axe to grind
and then if you haven't got an axe to grind you should go into cabaret."
                                                                 Pete Townshend