Re: Mardi Gras (No Who Content)

>That's what you should do.  In fact, you explained the Mardi Gras habits at New
>Orleans very well.  The only thing I objected to was the superfluous and
>dubious sentence (in your note of the 13th)
>
>   } It has been tied with Xtian beliefs now in that it begins at Epithany (in
>   } January) and ends the day before Ash Wed.

Bernd:

Describing the MG is exactly what I've been doing, and in fact it IS tied to
the Xtian observances of Epiphany and Ash Wed. So what's your point?

>The following quote from your note of the 14th was what I called a `note
>concerning what you believe is Christian believe':
>
>   ) It's a time for "getting your sins out." This has to do with giving things
>   ) up for Lent, and Lent is a Xtian belief...so yes it does have to do with
>   ) Xtian beliefs.

That's completely true, so again what's the problem?

>So, IMHO, I have done nothing wrong.

Except of accuse me of putting down Xtianity in this note, which I did not.
Not in THIS note.

>No, that's in fact exactly my point.  You are always referring to how thing are
>`called' and what is `said' about Christian believes. 

Because, my dear Bernd, what a thing is known as or for defines its meaning
in the end. Surely you're aware of that. Mislabeling something is always
dangerous. It leads to misunderstanding etc. There's too damned much
misunderstanding as it is, because people don't pay attention. If you start
adding mislabeled things to the mix...it will only get worse.

>Back to our example:  In our recent discussion, you claimed that Christmas and
>Easter are the two major Christian holidays.  I contradicted and said that
>there is a third one, called Whitsunday.  Now, if you had had a little in-depth
>knowledge about Christianity, you would have known a) that the only holiday I
>could possible have meant is Pentecost, and b) that Whitsunday is a less common
>name for Pentecost (in America). 

I've got news for you, Bernd: Pentacost isn't an important holiday (at least
here), certainly not in the same league with Xmas and Easter. Not even
close. So it didn't even occur to me. Did I say that I had retained
knowledge of every little Xtian "holiday" over the years? Shesh! I've got
better things to think about.

>BTW:  I have rarely seen arrogance like this as you are claiming to argue
>flawlessly.  I would never dare to claim that in a philosophical or religious
>discussion.

Well, I never said I wasn't arrogant. I am, and am willing to admit it. I've
learned to live with it.
Besides, you obviously missed the humor in my statements when I claim such
things. Did you miss the part when (early on) I said that one should seek
their own answers? This, of course, clearly indicates that I'm not pushing
my beliefs over someone else's.
I don't blame you, though...humor doesn't travel well via computer.

>Fine, as you wish, let's review it once again.  On the 13th, you wrote
>
>   } It has been tied with Xtian beliefs now in that it begins at Epithany (in
>   } January) and ends the day before Ash Wed.

Which is nothing more than the truth. An accurate description of Mardi Gras.
That is when it begins and ends. Are you now going to claim that those two
dates have NOTHING to do with Xtian beliefs?

>and on the 14th, you continued
>
>   ) It's a time for "getting your sins out." This has to do with giving things
>   ) up for Lent, and Lent is a Xtian belief...so yes it does have to do with
>   ) Xtian beliefs.

Ditto. Has to do with. Read it again, I said "has to do with" twice. Not "a
part of," which seems to be the meaning you're getting (for some reason).

>> And tell me how you intend to separate a rite from a belief. Belief spawns
>> ritual, therefore...I mean, if you want to be technical about it.

>And of course I do not belief in Mardi Gras because there is even
>less to believe.

Well, too bad I guess. You're missing a great party. Me, I love it.

>Read again, Mark.  The pagan end-of-winter rituals were supposed to scare off
>the winter demons. 

That was the past; this is now. No demons or any other supernatural beings
are involved now. You can see by my descripton the chronology..."It started
as" and "Now it's..." You want to argue Mardi Gras with me, then go to one
first.

>> You should read my posts with more attention to what's written.

>Interesting that of all listers YOU are saying this...

It's you that's missing the point, not me. Try again.
Unless you're now indicating that I have a history of misunderstanding on
this list. If that's your accusation, all I can say is: I'm not perfect. My
beliefs don't dictate that I need to be.
Of course, personal attacks always come when the attacker runs out of valid
arguments.

Man, you need to relax.

I do hope you won't be angry with me when we meet in NYC.




                   Cheers                   ML

"I think you should keep on playing Rock as long as you have an axe to grind
and then if you haven't got an axe to grind you should go into cabaret."
                                                                 Pete Townshend