Re: agree and disagree

[Keithjmoon70@xxxxxxx]

In a message dated 6/23/2003 12:35:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
sschrade@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:

> By this evidence, I believe you &Steve see someone who was in denial
> or lacking something in his life.  Someone who was confused, depressed,
> &negative.
> 

I don't know about any of these things for sure, that is why I used the word 
maybe.  What started  this thought of mine is what Roger said about John's 
last five years.  Roger felt bad for him healthwise and cared about him.  He was 
only 57. 

>I see someone who embraced life, had a strong sense of humor, didn't
take himself seriously, & loved playing rock & roll for his adoring fans. 

I see this too. There is no doubt about this much.

>Where you see negativity I see black humor. Where you see negativity I
see a realistic outlook on life. "Heaven & Hell" is both truthful &
poignant. Why the fuck can't we have eternal life & enjoy ourselves
here on Earth forever? "When I Was A Boy".....same thing. It sure was
nice being a kid & not having to worry about adult things. Boy, time
sure does rush by.


I don't see negativity in these songs, I see the lack of understanding based 
on looking at things in an "outward" way.  A reaction to the fairy tales of 
Christianity that are not even in the bible.  He was right to ridicule these 
things, because they are nonsense.  Men don't become angels with wings and play 
harps nor do we go to a place where we have a tail and a fork. Nor is it about 
being good or being bad. The earth isn't only 6000 years old, either... 

>These aren't negative thoughts. They're real thoughts. Real concerns.
Real laments. And so what. Everyone has thoughts like that. Did John
sit at home & dwell on those thoughts? Did he become a loner, shunning
other people because of a horrible fear of death? No, not at all. He
lived a wonderful, exciting life. Not everyone needs a crutch
 
They are wonderful thoughts.  Every person should have them.  But they should 
come with the seeking of an answer to them.  Otherwise they are vain 
thoughts.


>No, of course not. But does that make his songs *negative?* Can't you
see the humor & wit in his songs? Does everything have to be black &
white? Good vs. evil? Happy or depressed? A man can't make truthful
observations about life, even about the nastier elements of it, & not
be deemed depressed, negative, or lost?

Just what Entwistle songs do you think are extremely negative & show proof
of his alleged despondent nature? 

They aren't extremely negative, I just said that they have a negative slant. 
I enjoy them for the reasons you do because they are very real.  Why I say  
negative is because there is usually not a window for escape in them.  It is 
like watching a movie with a sad ending. Take Had Enough for instance. Is it 
wrong? No.  Is it refreshing to hear in the world of false hope? Certainly.  Does 
he ask "if you find something better"...? Yes.  Did he find something better?  
I don't know.  But that leads me to believe that things weren't all that 
great and that was written at the peak of their success. Nobody even died yet.



>> It is just sad to me because he pointed out the problems and it doesn't 
>> seem to me that he understood that these problems have been solved.

>According to *your* outlook on life. Right? *Your* outlook (read: faith)
that you wish Entwistle would've shared. Correct? So, since he didn't 
share *your* outlook, since he didn't have the answers that *you've* been
given, his life was incomplete, unfulfilled, & negative. How pleasant.

Look man, you know his songs are negative. Maybe you just don't equate 
darkness with negativeness. I wouldn't want to live in that world.  I know both and 
can tell you that Light is much better.  But your lovely tone tells me you 
ain't buying it ;-)


>>They are high things but they are *thick* veils.

>I think I'm going to be sick.

Ha. See? Epicurean.

>> I drink beer and not for any kind of escape. It tastes good, is relaxing 
>> and helps me keep weight on. 

>Tsk, tsk. And you expect to be welcomed into the afterlife?

Jesus' first miracle was changing water into wine, you know.  And His was 
*much* better.


>>Pete always holds out hope. 

>I thought we were talking about Entwistle.

For comparison.  Give Blood: Much complaining, much real life observation and 
then the give love part.  That is the window out of the self.




> >Just because one doesn't see things, doesn't mean that they're not 
>> there,

>If you stopped speaking in riddles & allegories we could have a much more
intelligent conversation.
 
A radio signal is neither a riddle nor and allegory.  It is real. However, 
unless one has a radio with a tuner, and that one willingly tunes into the 
proper frequency, it is not able to be detected. But it is there. You know that I'm 
talking about God. God is Spirit.  He is detected by our spirit.  This isn't 
an allegory or a riddle either.  You don't have to believe this of course, but 
that doesn't mean that I don't know what I'm talking about. 

Is this unintelligent of me to point out or is this merely the usual point in 
our conversation that you resort to personal insults because you don't like 
what I have to say?  Not a dig, I really mean it.



Jon in Mi.