Re: New jetta opinion poll... GLX or Wolfsburg?

["Bill Hussey" <list_squid@hotmail.com>]

>From: Khan Klatt <khan@mediaaccess.com>
>Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 19:31:54 -0700
>
>At 6:40 PM -0700 4/16/01, David Bergesen wrote:
>>Okay, it's just about time to turn in the keys to the 96 GLX in
>>favor of a new car. I'd like some driving impressions from those who
>>have experienced the VR6 and the STOCK 1.8T. Please.
>>
>>If you have anything good, bad, or ugly to share it will help, since
>>I've only experienced the VR6.

I've driven both the A41.8T and the Passat 1.8T, both with 5-speeds, and was 
disappointed with the power.  Reading the specs (peak torque available at 
1850 RPM) and 150HP .. I assumed I was gonna get similar performance to my 
Jetta GLX automatic .. but nah, it was pretty slow.  However, the 1.8T is 
highly tunable with very little cash, and if you have lots of cash, you can 
look at some wild HP numbers.

>>I may opt for a late model A4 1.8T over the 2.8 V6, but for some
>>reason I'd rather take the Jetta w/ a VR6 over the 1.8T. I can't
>>really even explain the phenomenon... From the numbers, all the
>>engines out of the box will do 0-60 in ~7.0 - 7.4 sec., so the
>>performance is pretty flat just based on that (I know, really poor
>>indication).

The Jetta is lighter and cheaper $$, but the A4 has a very sweet interior 
with less overall road noise coming through the cabin.

>Hey David-
>
>I've driven several cars regularly in the past four years. My 1997 A3
>Jetta GLX 2.8L VR6, a 1995 Audi S6 2.3L Turbo 5cyl, and my new 2001
>Golf (4d) 1.8L Turbo4cyl. I've loved each car, as each is unique in
>its own way.
>
>Based on my driving tastes, I notice that I tend to like handling
>more than power. The smaller the car, the better the handling.

Yes and no.  In the ultimate performance department, you're somewhat 
correct, but when discussing stock vehicles, or simply stock platforms, this 
is not true.  Doubt me?  Go into your local BMW dealer and test drive any 
5-series with a sport package.  Great road manners come from the balance of 
suspension geometry and components, spring rates, shock valving/dampening, 
and most importantly ... structural rigidity.  Lack of size usually brings 
speed, not necessarily handling, so it would be more correct to say that 
smaller cars are potentially faster, but some of the best handling cars out 
there aren't very small.

>What I like the most about smaller turbo charged engines is that they
>get more power for less displacement. This aspect of it really
>fulfills the "efficiency fanatic" in me. With a smaller engine that
>puts out similar performance, you also have a much lighter car. This
>translates into two things. The engine has to spend less of its power
>simply pulling its own weight. Secondly, with less weight over the
>front tires, you don't have any severe nose-in during hard braking.

Ahhhhhhaaaack!  Front wheel drive is still front wheel drive ... diving 
under braking is the least of your problems in a front wheel drive car ... 
the biggest problems being the manic plowing of the front-end during 
cornering, the lack of ability to properly transfer weight during Ess curves 
or "lane change maneuvers", and the fact that your 
steering/braking/acclerating is all handled by the same two wheels .. 
seriously cutting the number of things you can do with the car.

>3. The Golf tends to, IMO, handle a little better than an equivalent
>Jetta because the tires are literally as close as you can put to the
>edge of the four corners of the car. While it's not substantial, the
>Jetta does have a couple hundred pounds of trunk jutting out behind
>the back wheels that the Golf does not. The GTI is potentially better
>here because it doesn't have two extra doors, and I believe it has
>the same wheelbase, but *maybe* one inch longer... What the two doors
>(and maybe one inch-- there's contradictory info at vw.com) buys you
>is 55 lbs.

The Golf and the Jetta are for all intent and purposes, identical cars .. 
and with similar drivetrains, they are only about 150lbs apart, nothing 
really too noticible by the seat of the pants.  Bodywork might be a little 
different, but the underpinnings are IDENTICAL, including front/rear track, 
wheelbase, height, width, and suspension components, the frame, brakes, etc 
...  Similar drivetrains will have similar weight specs and dimensionaly 
layouts within the body structure, so weight distribution is pretty close 
(of course, the addition of the backend of the car on the Jetta helps the 
distribution out, which is why even though the Jetta is slightly heavier, 
it's faster around the track than an equally equipped Golf)


Now, be it as it be ... I'm sure some of you out there are just DYING to 
give me hell for this post.  I'm not knocking VWs, as entry level cars go, 
they are fairly well built, look great, and have excellent running gear 
(brakes, steering, wheels/tires) as compared to your typical UJC of similar 
cost .. however .....

The VR6 guzzles way too much gas for it's displacement .. what's with this 
two-valve shit?

The 2.0L used to put out 140HP (5 years ago or so) .. why the switch to 115? 
  You can get out and run faster.

The car is jello.  15 year old Porche's, BMW's, Benz', even Jags have 
stiffer structures ... what up wit dat??  I talked to a Jetta running SCCA 
Touring Car racer last year and asked about this and he agreed, they needed 
to fabricate custom strut tower braces cause the aftermarket didn't have 
anything stiff enough, a custom X-brace for the underneath of the car, and 
are currently (or at least were at the time) trying to figure out how to 
beef up the roll cage to help stiffen the chassis.

Typically ... German designed cars are designed to be stable at extreme 
velocities, I'm sure a few thousand people traveling at 120+ on autobahns on 
a daily basis helped determine the need for this.  And although my VR6 has 
great brakes for an entry level car ... why is it that they fade so bad .. 
don't people ever have to get OFF the autobahns??  One good haul down from 
110 - 25mph or so and you better be thinking of how your going to cool the 
brakes before the next corner.  At Limerock it's easy .. brake like mad for 
Big Bend and feel your brakes go almost completely away .. but alas, you 
don't have to brake again till the entrance to the Uphill, and the rest of 
the brake zones are pretty light stuff.  But Loudon is a killer!!  By the 
time I was on lap two .. I coulda sworn I'd dropped a rotor or two somewhere 
on the track.  I've never lost that much fluid in a given day before.  I'm 
not a religious person by any means .. but I was chanting hail mary's around 
the entire session.

Go ahead ... rip into me.  But before you do, go test drive a new 5 or 7 
series with a sport package (I'd say try the 3 series, but that would be 
overkill, they're so fantastic it's practically sinful) ... absolutely 
unreal cars.  Or try a Boxster for that matter ... they basic engine is 
pretty underpowered, but rip it around a few bends and get back to me.  
Granted, the Boxster should handle great for the extra money it costs, but 
considering you can have a brand new 325 for 5 thousand more than similarly 
equipped Jetta ... why get a Jetta?

Bill
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